KSAN - KSNA TEC Route SANN4

[bbuckley]

This morning I filed the SANN4 TEC route to KSNA @ 10,000 in a Phenom 100 and after 30 minutes of programming it all into the GPS what I got from CLNC was PEBLE6.SLI then direct. So I spent another 20 minutes reprogramming the GPS and studying and printing the SID. The GPS database (popup rxpGNS430W) didn't have the PEBLE6, it had PEBLE4 so I had to program each waypoint manually. All good practice, but I don't understand why SANN4 wasn't acceptable? If I fly this route regularly should I expect the SID or the TEC? And just to add to the frustration, on takeoff there was a massive thunderstorm locally that caused a momentary power outage and FSX reset so I'll have to try again later. Will the route depend on traffic? KSAN was using rwy 27.
Thanks.

[bbuckley]

Never mind. Figured it out. I had programmed the TEC route intersection as a User Waypoint not realizing it was PEBLE. The TEC description didn't give the GPS waypoint. So the only difference is the the initial climb on the SID has additional legs and restrictions to get to the MZB293R. Without being given the SID I was going to use the rwy 27 ODP to MZB.

[Keith Smith]

it's generally a good practice to pick up your clearance prior to programming your avionics.

KSAN has a local SOP which trumps the TEC route. the sop days to issue the peble sid for departures that were going to be issued mzb293 and sli148. also, sometimes vors are still a good tool for the job, it would save you a lot of time on the ground.

[wmburns]

-The GPS database (popup rxpGNS430W) didn't have the PEBLE6, it had PEBLE4 so I had to program each waypoint manually. All good practice, but I don't understand why SANN4 wasn't acceptable?

And the slant alpha gods are shedding a tear today. The children of the magenta are taking over! <joke>.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN41LvuSz10

I have flown this several times before I figured out PEBLE is a GPS name for the intersection of MZB293R SLI148R. Before I stumbled across this gem, it just seemed simpler to use the VOR's to navigate the first part of the route. Especially compared to the difficulty of entering a GPS user way point. Use all of the tools in the tool box.

If by chance you are dead set against using the VOR's, then fly using the GPS in OBS mode. Again use all of the tools in the tool box.

Regarding TEC routes. Remember that's common to be given airport specific instructions on how to depart and join the TEC route.

[Ryan B]

pm me if you need updated navdata

[bbuckley]

Keith: Thanks that's the piece I was missing, the SOP. I'll file PEBLE6.SLI from now on. In RW I always wait to program the GPS until after clearance, but to save a little "family time" I use FSX / rxpGNS offline in a few minutes of down time to store the FPL for an upcoming flight. That way I can usually just make a small mod and go. I always fly the VOR to do something like intercept a radial. I may have GPS backup, may not.

Ryan: will do, thanks!

wmburns: I got my instrument ticket in the mid 70's flying VOR / TACAN / NDB in A-4's and F-14's and in my RW Archer I don't have an FMS or even an autopilot, so I' don't have any problem flying VOR.

[jay9909]

The GPS database (popup rxpGNS430W) didn't have the PEBLE6, it had PEBLE4 so I had to program each waypoint manually.

I may be confusing different issues, but isn't this actually illegal?

[Nelson L.]

The GPS database (popup rxpGNS430W) didn't have the PEBLE6, it had PEBLE4 so I had to program each waypoint manually.

I may be confusing different issues, but isn't this actually illegal?

Probably shouldn't be answering because I'm not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure that only applies to RNAV procedures.

Edit - Think it was mentioned in one of the IFR Workshops, though there's no way I can find it without going through all of them.

[stevekirks]

PE crew can jump in here, but I've had that happen a few times until someone told me that the PEBLE departure and the SANN4 routing are so close, that they issue the SID instead. If you're a VFR pilot, don't you kind of 'have to' file TEC routes in SoCal? How would RW KSAN handle the same pilot going VFR on the TEC route?

[bbuckley]

The GPS database (popup rxpGNS430W) didn't have the PEBLE6, it had PEBLE4 so I had to program each waypoint manually.

I may be confusing different issues, but isn't this actually illegal?

No. SIDS & STARS come in two flavors, conventional and RNAV. Procedure names in the GNSS database is reqd only for RNAV SIDS & STARS The word RNAV will be included in the procedure name. Conventional SIDS / STARS can be flown without that capability, even without a GPS.