X-Plane 10 fresh install (a.k.a. convert from FS9)

[Keith Smith]

You can also map those functions to a key or joystick button.

[Cyrus]

Thanks DeRiet, that makes sense.

HOWEVER... !!.... after staying up until 4am last night and tinkering with just about every setting in the latest update of XP10 (updated via web after fully installed), and with many different GA aircraft, I have to say that I am very disappointed. Performance was *not* the issue. In fact, everything looked georgeous and was very fluid when I found the right compromise of detail/textures vs. fps (and I really love the "plausible world" concept with real roads/cars, detailed power lines, etc.... a real VFR dream).

No, the issue for me is the flight model and hyper responsiveness of the controls . Also, I could never quite solve the torque -> constant roll issue. I found trimming the plane near impossible. Admiditelly, my current joystick probably isn't helping, but things were a lot more forgiving in MSFS.

Bottom line, MSFS was working great for me and suported my short and mid-term goals with simming on PE. I guess I'm just not ready to invest the time or energy right now in making XP work for me. And before anyone asks, I really did experiement with just about every setting available (in the sim and in the OS), like joystick sensitivity in Windows control panel, the flight model realism vs. stability settings in XP, null zones, all that good stuff... I just couldn't get happy with any one configuration.

Having said all that, I can totally see the attraction of XP - especially for real world pilots. So perhaps this all says something more about me than it does about XP. In fact, I’m quite sure of it.

Thanks for all the advice though. See you all in the skies again real soon!

[Keith Smith]

I've seen this happen probably close to 100 times....someone downloads X-Plane, spends one night with it, then uninstalls and goes back to FSX.

There IS a learning curve... but everything you just described can be solved. Ask Mark Hargrove

The sensitivity is EASY to fix:
1) make sure you are moving your controls through a full range of movement (since xplane is self calibrating). That way, it won't think that 1/4 deflection, which might be the most you ever moved it in the sim) is full deflection

2) change the response curve for pitch, roll and yaw. And while you're there, change the flight model to full realism, so you're not running a Ferrari with the emergency brake on All of that is done in Settings->Joystick & Equipment.

Regarding roll, map a key or hat switch to left or right aileron trim. Real planes don't always have it, but real planes DO have a trim tab that is usually set for cruise flight.

[JN_]

I second everything Keith said. In addition, if you're flying cessnas, I find the stock C172 to be particularly squirrely. I'm mucher happier with the Carenado C172N's (payware) flight characteristics.

[DeRiet]

I also totally agree with Keith. I tried to set up my configuration in FSX with more than four USB devices (yoke, rudder, throttle, carb heat etc). What a nightmare! I never was able to set it up correctly.

Compare that with X-Plane. Granted, there are a lot of configuration options but those options are there because you need them if you want to set up your configuration correctly. FSX didn't have those options with the result that you couldn't configure your stuff correctly, even if you wanted to spend time figuring out how to do it! (although I reckon there are some other payware solutions that solve some of the FSX lack of options).

Seriously, if the only reason you dismiss X-plane is because you need help figuring out how to configure optimally, don't dismiss X-plane. There's enough help available in these (and other) forums. At least x-plane allows you to configure optimally!

Hope this helps

[Cyrus]

I truly appreciate all the input. In fact, I spent another all-nighter getting to know X-Plane a little more (in the light of this forum "Intervention" from you guys ).

I was finally able to master the autopilot, but only in the Beechcraft Twin (after I fell in love with the gorgeous 3d cockpit), and that mitigated a lot of the frustration of above issues (torque roll, trimming issues, hyper sensitivity, etc.). Yes, I know I can't fly with the autopilot as my primary control input, but this way I can play with mastering one axis at a time. I also believe I got closer to the sweet spot with the joystick settings (based mainly on Keith's recommendations, and others around the web). So let's say that the controls are... under control.

Remaining concerns....

I still haven't found a Cessna that I was truly happy with (visuals & controls), and I've tried all of the products mentioned above, except for the Carenado (yet). I guess I could revert back to the default 172, create keyboard mappings for the missing panel autopilot settings, and just display those values on screen. I like the flexibility of the keyboard mapping, so I guess that could work. More testing needed here.

I know I'm sounding neurotic, but now my biggest is now about the scenery... or lack thereof. I know this is a tired old subject, but there's no BlueSky for X-Plane, I couldn't find a payware package for SoCal, and Daddy O's links all seem to be about airport scenery.....

I watched Mark's VFR PE Workshop 3 flight from KMYF to KRNM the other day, and I just can't imagine doing this in X-Plane with the default scenery (by the way, I noticed that he didn't ). Obviously, this is not such a big issue for IFR flying, but I don't the idea of limiting myself to just mountains, roads and lakes when it comes to having VFR clues. The Sectionals are so rich with golf courses, stadiums, etc., and it seems a shame to not be able to leverage those visual clues as well.

In summary, I can live with - and perhaps even embrace - the X-Plane flight model and controls. But when it comes to VFR flying, I'll fear that I'll always be in search of something more.

I wish I could get past all this. I really do. I'd love to be able to say "the tool is just a means to an end", but since the simulator is the foundation that makes mastering ATC interaction and flight planning/navigation possible (the things that I really enjoy), then I do need to figure this all out.

[I'm conscious of the fact that this discussion may help other MSFS veterans who are grappling with the X-Plane learning curve, which is the primary reason that I'm trying to cover all the bases, as well as see it through to closure for myself - but thanks again for indulging me ]

[Mark Hargrove]

I watched Mark's VFR PE Workshop 3 flight from KMYF to KRNM the other day, and I just can't imagine doing this in X-Plane with the default scenery (by the way, I noticed that he didn't ). Obviously, this is not such a big issue for IFR flying, but I don't the idea of limiting myself to just mountains, roads and lakes when it comes to having VFR clues. The Sectionals are so rich with golf courses, stadiums, etc., and it seems a shame to not be able to leverage those visual clues as well.

In fact, I did record the flight using X-Plane. I got so horribly lost because of the lack of scenery that perhaps I should have posted the video as a blooper reel. I finally did find KRNM, but only by using a couple of intersecting VOR radials to get me in the vicinity.

X-Plane has a lot to recommend it, but the lack of scenery is a major problem for me too.

-M.

[JN_]

Since I suggested the Carenado C172N, I thought I should mention that perhaps one or two things are broken in XPlane 10 (being that it was produced for XP9). They're supposed to fix 'em for XP10 but I've been waiting forever. The one thing I remember off the top of my head is the comm selection -- I had to map "select comm1", "select comm2" to the keyboard and there's no good visual indication which one is currently selected.

Also (not a bug but...), the aircraft is /U, meaning that it has vor's, but no dme. At first I was rather disappointed, but I've warmed up to the idea of practicing flying without relying on DME. Bottom line, I really like the Carenado.

I'll admit that XPlane is a mixed bag. I use one sim exclusively because I just don't have time to deal with multiple, and I've chosen XP because FSX seems like an evolutionary dead end. XPlane should continue to get better over time.

The "plausible world" vfr experience in XPlane just got a *lot* better in 10.20, which hasn't been released yet, so if you're not using XP betas, you are not seeing this yet and you definitely should check it out. A word of caution, if you're accepting beta updates, you occasionally might run into a bug which leaves you dead-in-the-water. I believe most people maintain two installed copies, one which follows the beta releases, and one which follows the official releases, so that they always have a stable copy to fly. The easiest way to set this up is to go to the filesystem and make a full copy of the install directory, then start up the updater in one of the copies and check the box which says "download betas". Make sure you have enough disk space first.

I've never seen any golf courses or other landmarks.

[Calvin Waterbury]

Folks, I started another thread to focus on this subject...
Basic VFR Landmarks for X-Plane

[ChristophPreinfalk]

Cyrus,

You can also (in addition to mapping autopilot functions to your joystick) use plane maker and add functions to the instrument panel. The default C172 has this wide open space on the passenger side that begs for you to add whatever you like, even the default FMS, if you like. It's much simpler than you'd think, you just open plane maker, then open the C172 (first make a copy, of course), and then you can add stuff to the 2D instrument panel. When you fly the plane, you will see the new switches/buttons/instruments in the 3D view as well. No need to worry about 3D modeling when you do this stuff. I found that out through google when I wanted to add the default FMS to the Cirrus Jet.