PilotEdge Forums

You're always allowed to request a Bravo transition, chances are you aren't going to be cleared into the Bravo unless you're on a published transition route; however, this is a good situation (especially on PilotEdge) to request a non-published transition because there are no transition routes that would make sense, and skirting around the Bravo will take longer (over open water and single engine, gasp!). You may get the clearance, or they may tell you to stay clear depending on what traffic is like out of LAX.

Having flown this FSE route a few times..

I usually depart KVNY and get clear of the Burbank Charlie to the west at 4500' and head towards the bravo set up to intercept LAX 323 radial and ring up Socal on the published 134.2 frequency requesting the Coastal route southbound at 6500'. Being at 4500 means you can get under that outer shelf while you coordinate with Socal and then intercept the radial and climb to the requested/published altitude after hearing those magic words.. '..cleared in to the Los Angeles bravo..'. You can also just get up to 6500' so you're above the Burbank charlie but you've got be on your toes to make sure you don't bust that first bravo shelf that starts at 5000'.

I disagree that this was a good situation to request a non-published route given that the coastal route will get you through the bravo headed in the right direction to head out to San Clemente via the Santa Catalina VOR.

Familiarize yourself with the Los Angeles TAC chart and the five published transitions and do some planning ahead of your flight, it's a lot more rewarding and should take some stress off you!

I actually sat in front of skyvector for 10 minutes on just this one simple flight trying to think of whether or not asking for that transition would work, and how I would request my transition.... without seeing that the Coastal Route took me in the right direction All I saw was routes going inland and assumed "well, if I need to go out towards the water, and those routes take me along the coast, they must not work" Regardless of how bad of a flight planner I am though, my main confusion was that the Departure Controller didn't say that traffic prevented my from getting the transition - instead, I got "umm... 53F, there are published transitions", which I assumed meant that I wasn't even allowed to request the clearance in the first place? This got me even more confused because the next controller cleared me along my original planned route of transitioning through the top-left tip of the 100-50 shelf, down through the 100-20 shelf, and out 100-50 shelf direct Santa Catalina VOR (skirted the SFC shelf because I assumed that was pushing it with all the departures coming out of LAX) - even though I didn't request it to him (2 different controllers..... I think....)

<div id="sv_8282" style="width: 200px; height: 200px;"><a href="//skyvector.com/">Flight Planner</a> at SkyVector.com</div><script src="//skyvector.com/api/lchart?ll=33.68686760402103,-118.4496459923061&s=5&c=sv_8282&i=301" type="text/javascript"></script>

Edit - I officially give up on trying to embed skyvector images....

The V-x ratings are designed to help you run through a series of operations which are practical and necessary when flying VFR in Socal. If you hold off on doing the ratings and simply roll your own flights, you're actually going to run into scenarios that would've been covered in detail by the V-x ratings (this will be even more true when we release the CAT ratings, and yes, they're getting very close.)

This is a good example of that case...flying the focus fields and then getting confused by a Bravo transition.

"There are published transitions" implies that the controller needs you to be doing one of those. Otherwise, go above, below or around the airspace.

The mini-route, SFRA, and coastal routes are all perfectly suited for the Van Nuys to San Clemente trip, depending on the desired altitude. They barely take you off the direct track.

This is the point at which I'm wishing the new V-ratings have been published :/ Did my V3 a week or 2 ago, and I've been watching all the IFR workshops lately (I've done "Departures"-"Approaches Part 4" - Just need to do the "Holds and Lost Comms" one before I attempt my I-1). At this point, I feel like I have a better understanding of IFR compared to VFR. I'm 100% confident in any of the published Bravo transitions, but I don't think the Ratings or the Workshops (unless I forgot something from one of the V-Workshops, which is somewhat likely given that its been a month or so since I watched them) covered unpublished transitions. The only thing I remember was the long, 700nm flight in which it was discussed that you would just be vectored the whole time from departure, but that wasn't really a transition. On the topic of the published routes, I agree that they would have been the better choice, but seeing as I didn't realize that they were on-course (my fault.... ), the only option left I saw was to ask for the transition, give them a course so that they could know where I was going and either deny/request, and just go around the Bravo if they denied. To be honest, the denial of my transition wouldn't have caused me any confusion had the second controller not given me the clearance, but the clearance made me think I missed some rule about ATC. At least this flight has confirmed my hope that FSE has accomplished the task of making me sweat buckets.

You really don't need an unpublished transition. The direct route of flight vs using the published transition isn't more than a couple of miles difference.

Yep. See that now. Didn't see that during flight planning.

Reading back on my earlier posts, I can see my poor wording probably caused quite a bit of confusion. For the benefit of anyone who reads this in the future, and to clarify for those who have been confused:

My original questions:

1. Why did one controller deny clearance and say "there are published transitions" when 1 minute later the next controller gave me an unpublished transition?

Think this was answered by Keith - he needed me on a published transition.

2. Was I even allowed to request "Stationair 2253F request Southeast Bravo transition direct Santa Catalina VOR"

Yes. Was it a good idea? Considering I didn't notice the Coastal Route was along my flight path, I maintain that I chose the best flight path based on my available information.


Also, apologies to everyone for my frequent questions, I'm sure its gotten quite annoying by now. Hopefully the frequency of my stupid questions will decrease with time. Thanks to everyone who's helped

Nelson L. wrote:Also, apologies to everyone for my frequent questions, I'm sure its gotten quite annoying by now. Hopefully the frequency of my stupid questions will decrease with time. Thanks to everyone who's helped

Nope, it is not getting annoying and there is no such thing as a stupid question.