PilotEdge Forums

Nelson L. wrote:Agreed on both points - just to clarify (is it just me or have I been using that phrase a lot?) -

If your radio has actually failed, I wouldn't classify it as disconnect-worthy unless your in the middle of a fly-in (provided your wing hasn't fallen off - i.e. you can safely keep going). Lost-comms situations can be great training for both pilots and controllers.

I'm thinking of this as stuff you want to know when starting out, not the PE Bible. That's a separate post.

Nelson L. wrote:Speaking of that, Keith, Peter, Tim, or "other", are the controller-induced failures still in consideration with the network growing at such a rapid pace? If so, if Peter or Keith is controlling, and the network is quiet, would you guys be OK with us putting in the remarks "feel free to fail radio" or "feel free to fail___"? It would add another dimension to the "training" aspect of the service, although I imagine its a lot of work to train controllers and implement such a system.

Good stuff, outside the scope of this post. Might be worth a new thread of your own.

Nelson L. wrote:Edit - Actually, I dispute the first claim - controllers can get very frustrated, especially if its busy. You can usually tell though; great incentive to not mess up...

I agree with you in general, but again, keeping with the spirit of the intended audience, I wouldn't want someone to get in over their head, think the controllers are jerks, then quit the service. Yes, the might be frustrated, but there's a real world simulation or standard to be met. In the real world, a controller would get frustrated with you but since PE is a learning environment too, there should be a relief valve of some type. It should be known it's OK to throw up your hands and say "I need to disconnect" instead of plowing along into chaos. It was one of the things I was most nervous about when I started.

I think all the necessary information for starters on PE is already covered, provided and well organized at the PE main web page.

It is not about how much extra information a new member may require, it is all about each specific person attitude, passion, responsibility and dedication to learn and do things properly just step by step.

I am a spanish guy, the challenge to me was double. I had to acquire all the technical knowledge of flying real world ATC services + catch up on english technical fast communications with varied accents people.

Being on the network for +6000 minutes, i had no problem at all doing my V1 to V3 then I1 to I11 and still learning every single day. It is all there, videos, transcripts, recommendations, documentation, etc.

IT IS ALL ABOUT YOURSELF. just my 2 cents.

mmerelles wrote:I think all the necessary information for starters on PE is already covered, provided and well organized at the PE main web page.

It is not about how much extra information a new member may require, it is all about each specific person attitude, passion, responsibility and dedication to learn and do things properly just step by step.

I am a spanish guy, the challenge to me was double. I had to acquire all the technical knowledge of flying real world ATC services + catch up on english technical fast communications with varied accents people.

Being on the network for +6000 minutes, i had no problem at all doing my V1 to V3 then I1 to I11 and still learning every single day. It is all there, videos, transcripts, recommendations, documentation, etc.

IT IS ALL ABOUT YOURSELF. just my 2 cents.

I would agree that it's all out there and well covered. Transcripts, videos, recordings, the receivers and more contribute to a vast wealth of knowledge. Here's my motivation:

I listened to an eager, well-meaning young person on the network yesterday, excited to try out this professional environment. He made several mistakes and was told to go through the training program. He came back today and started the steps for V-1, made more mistakes and finally made it through. I started this thread because there's somethings that are non-obvious and I wanted to capture them as best I could. Sometimes environments like this can be exclusive, where people feel like if they don't know all of the ins and outs first thing, they won't stick with it. PE has made big difference in my confidence in the sim and in the plane when I'm with an instructor and I wanted to make sure everyone had that same experience if possible.

"Have charts on board" is obvious so it might now make a final cut later on. But I was hoping to give everyone who saw this a voice to say the things that they wish they would have known. I figured I'd edit this way down to a single page and submit to Keith for inclusion at his discretion.

Manuel, I completely agree on all the points you made - except for the one where extra advice "isn't needed". Everyone who tries out PE already has a certain amount of intelligence, and sure, they would figure everything out eventually. One of the largest benefits of advice isn't that it necessarily teaches someone something extraordinary (although they sometimes do - check out the workshops!), its that it speeds up the learning process (for me anyways)*. The thing that the training ratings don't cover well (IMO) are the whys. Why do I do this, Why do ODPs exist, Why does the V2 make me request a "westbound" VFR flight at an odd number but the controller is saying that 7000 isn't an appropriate altitude for a KSAN-KSNA flight? Another thing is that people who have been around a long time (not referring to me) have picked up "tricks of the trade", which is especially true on PE where a large percentage of the user base are pilots, instructors, or aviation enthusiasts. Things like, "how do most people call for closed traffic?" are not answered by the ratings. Instead of "taxing to the active" with a "November_____", most people use a "Skyhawk___" or "Baron____", etc... "taxi for closed traffic" or something along those lines. Its the things like that which come from experience that the training ratings don't cover, partly because they're meant to teach a large community and partly because there's no interactive feedback (unless you come to the forum). Each person definitely has their own challenges (ie adapting to English), but I personally never discount any reasonable advice - no one has to accept the advice, but something somewhere somehow may just help Besides, what else am I going to spend my evenings doing!?

*Not necessarily true for everything, but for our topic, I consider it true if someone puts in the hours of PE/RW.

PS - I'm catching up to you in the 732 minutes Manuel, better hurry it up

I get the intent for this thread and it will be a good "Read me first" type quick reference.

That being said sim pilots need to do some real homework to get going, this is not a grip it and rip it type video game which so many seek out. It think many come here and think that they will just give it a try, how hard can it be right?

The rating flights are everything a pilot needs to be successful on PE provided they put some effort in researching and learning. To compliment the ratings teachings I personally spent countless hours web searching acronyms and aeronautical terms so that I can understand better what was being said. I also watched Youtubes of RW and Sim pilots, hours of Keith's workshops...Twitch streams were also helpful. Looking back each rating level is well crafted to give the pilot a new navigational technique, the I-06 was a game changer for me...it showed me how to properly read an approach plate. With some effort I got through to the I-06 in about 6 weeks from walking in without any prior flight knowledge whatsoever, very satisfying experience I must say.

All that notwithstanding, anything that helps a newb become proficient faster on the network is a good thing.

On a side note I would like to add that PE It is very open and accepting to first timers. What sold me personally on PE was a response Keith had to some disgruntled pilot I think on the forums. Keith had nothing but pure class and respect while offering helpful guidance...I joined up that day.

2 words for a one-stop shop to success

PE Workshops!

No one claims that this is the "read this and you'll master everything", it was just a good friendly idea for the recent influx of new pilots (provided they come to the forums...)

Great thread idea! Hopefully new people come in here and read it before their first flight.


It was already touched upon, but I'll mention it again. One of the biggest things needed to be learned is radio etiquette. I have seen it be an issue here on PE and in the real world with my students( and other students at my school and other schools in the area). Now I understand before PE made the change in the isolation logic it was hard to tell if you were stepping over someone( and this remains true if you are on a center/approach control) because you only heard the controller. In this case always wait a few seconds when handed off to new freq to see if the controller is speaking. This won't guarantee not stepping over someone because the controller could be listening to a readback, but it will help.

Now with the isolation logic change with ground/tower/clearance and you hear the controller and other pilots, listen to the radio calls before hitting your PTT button. Does it make sense to ask for your clearance at that time? I have heard people push their PTT after a controller gave another pilot their clearance without letting the other pilot give the controller their readback. I was getting my taxi clearance and as soon as I was done with my radio call requesting taxi instructions, someone immediately called up clearance. There may be times where you have to jump in over the other guy( 500 ft AGL short final and still not able to get a radio call into tower, was one time I had to jump in and interrupt), but generally be patient and pick up when it is appropriate for you to get your call in.