Flying Penguin Club

[Keith Smith]

2 pax on a King AIr? Now just imagine what you would've made it you came close to filling it up

One thing to get your head around is that the jobs are persistent, and don't need to flown non-stop. Take my LAX to VCV/APV example from above. That's a 2 leg trip rather than a simple point to point. It's very common to do legs like that once you're flying planes with lots of seats (like a King Air).

If you'd like some tower to tower flights, I just checked SAN, and there is a roundtrip from SAN-RNM-SAN which would do well in a 4-6 seater, you'll make money both ways.

Enjoy!

[Peter Grey]

For the record you can go into negative amounts with no real penalty for a renter.

[zengei]

Just finished my first trip on FSE with the B190 (only aircraft in the group I own). This was also my first time flying the B190 on PE.

Trip was: L19 -> KDLO -> KMIT -> L17 -> L88 -> KAVX -> KSAN

L19, KDLO, KMIT, L17, and L88 were to pickup passengers. Carried 19 passengers (full load) to KAVX, where 3 got off, then took the other 16 to KSAN.

If I'm reading the logs correctly. The trip netted $7,540.32 for the group and $12,546.00 for myself.

[crum]

If I'm reading the logs correctly. The trip netted $7,540.32 for the group and $12,546.00 for myself.

Actually not quite right...

For example this last flight: http://www.fseconomy.net:81/log.jsp?gro ... id=5678210

Income $14,308.00
Total rental cost ($573.11)
Total additional cost ($3,939.45)
Distance bonus ($220.95)
Earnings this flight $9,574.49
Paid to group "Flying Penguin Club" ($1,872.51) — this is loss, not income
Paid to pilot $11,447.00

When you see numbers in parentheses this means negative value.

Your total flight income is $14,308.00, operational (FBO, fuel etc.) cost is $3,939.45, rental costs $573.11+$220.95 (we can exclude that, because this money group pays for itself). So, afterall we have $14,308.00 - $3,939.45 = $10368,55 earned. But the pilot fee is calculated from total income and at final you get $11,447.00 which is more than the $10368,55 we earned this flight. $10368,55 - $11,447.00 = -$1078,45 — money lost by group.

All other your flights are with loss too, but, please, don't worry about that. As I said in announcement, current pilot fee could to be too much optimistic and I will need to correct it. And looks like 70% would be more realistic.

p. s.
If you rent aircraft which not belongs to group and fly it 'for group', then rental costs should not be excluded - they are extracted from total income.

[Keith Smith]

The hardest thing about running a group is that it's hard to know what % of the revenue is going to be classified as an expense by FSE. It varies based on the number of jobs that were carried on the flight. The higher the number of jobs, the higher the percentage % charged in additional fees. This is what has bothered me about groups so far...it's almost impossible to come up with the 'right' number to split between group and pilots.

I am, once again, back in the camp of just preferring solo flights If you find the right answer, though, let us know!

[stealthbob]

So if I read this correct....

I just lost money while being in the group even though I haven't flown for it yet?

[Keith Smith]

The group has its own bank account that is managed by the group owner. He lost money. You, as a pilot, will get paid either way from each flight, even if the group loses money.

[crum]

So if I read this correct....
I just lost money while being in the group even though I haven't flown for it yet?

No, the flights you apparently did were not 'for group' and therefore no loss for us.
Being a member of a group FSE doesn't mean all your flights are automatically 'for group' - you're choosing this each time you take new assignment. You still can fly on your own paying all the costs from your pocket. But if you want to have benefits of the group flight you should rent one of the club airplanes and choose to take assignments and fly them for group.

[zengei]

Thanks for the explanation crum, trying to see what money was going where was a bit confusing. I'm actually a bit surprised pilots get paid out of the gross rather than the net. I intuitively thought of groups like a partnership, where partners would share in both the profit and losses.

I have another set of 19 passengers lined up going from KSAN -> L77 -> CA90 -> KHII. Hopefully this trip will be a bit more profitable for the group.

Current goal: Make enough money for a PC12.

[crum]

I'm actually a bit surprised pilots get paid out of the gross rather than the net. I intuitively thought of groups like a partnership, where partners would share in both the profit and losses.

Same here. Not quite understand the FSE developers logic in this case.

I have another set of 19 passengers lined up going from KSAN -> L77 -> CA90 -> KHII. Hopefully this trip will be a bit more profitable for the group. Current goal: Make enough money for a PC12.

Good luck with that!

FYI: pilot fee is reduced to 70% now. We'll see how it goes.