PilotEdge Forums

While studying for the I-07 rating, I've got a few questions:

--Just to make sure I understand the chart, the 10NM restriction for the procedure term is relative to RIGLI, not to the SXC VOR, right?

--Does the 10NM restriction apply to the entire course reversal path? Does it need to be completely contained with the 10NM circle around RIGLI?

--In the tutorial video, Keith notes that the procedure turn is outbound on a 307 degree heading followed by a right turn to a heading of 127 degrees to track back to SXC R-172. How do we know to make a right rather than a left turn? Is it just to give us a little more time to descend, or is there some standard methodology guiding the turn direction for the reversal?

--What is the earliest point we can descend from 3400' (the outbound restriction to RIGLI) to 2300'? Can we descend during the PT, or do we have to wait until established on the SXC R-172 inbound?

--What is the earliest point we can break off the approach once we're below clouds and have the airport in sight? (and I guess I'm asking this question from an I-07 rating perspective) Can I break off the instrument approach and begin my visual approach as soon as I cross RIGLI (assuming field in sight)? -- or do I let SoCal know when I have the field in sight and wait for them clear me to continue on a visual?

-- At what point do I begin advisories on the KAVX CTAF frequency? --as soon as I break off the instrument approach and being my visual approach? --or do I wait for SoCal to tell me "frequency change approved" somewhere along the way?

-M.

Mark Hargrove wrote:While studying for the I-07 rating, I've got a few questions:

--Just to make sure I understand the chart, the 10NM restriction for the procedure term is relative to RIGLI, not to the SXC VOR, right?

Right.

--Does the 10NM restriction apply to the entire course reversal path? Does it need to be completely contained with the 10NM circle around RIGLI?

Yes, and yes.

--In the tutorial video, Keith notes that the procedure turn is outbound on a 307 degree heading followed by a right turn to a heading of 127 degrees to track back to SXC R-172. How do we know to make a right rather than a left turn? Is it just to give us a little more time to descend, or is there some standard methodology guiding the turn direction for the reversal?

Standard for a 45/180 reversal to make the 180 in such a way that you get further away, not closer, to the FAF.

--What is the earliest point we can descend from 3400' (the outbound restriction to RIGLI) to 2300'? Can we descend during the PT, or do we have to wait until established on the SXC R-172 inbound?

The vertical profile implies that the course reversal is completed no lower than 3400'. You can descend to 2300ft once established on the radial inbound.

--What is the earliest point we can break off the approach once we're below clouds and have the airport in sight? (and I guess I'm asking this question from an I-07 rating perspective) Can I break off the instrument approach and begin my visual approach as soon as I cross RIGLI (assuming field in sight)? -- or do I let SoCal know when I have the field in sight and wait for them clear me to continue on a visual?

Terrain and obstacle protection is only guaranteed down to the published circling minima, and only within a certain radius from the airport. The radius varies by approach category (Category A, B, C, D). Only Cat A/B are authorized for this approach. From memory, the terrain protection is guaranteed out to 1.3 and 1.5nm, respectively. What that implies is that while you're circling, you such keep it within those distances if you'd like to be guaranteed terrain/obstacle separation while maneuvering at the MDA.

I would avoid the use of the term 'visual approach' in your question above. While you will be landing/maneuvering visually on this approach, that is not the same as a visual approach that you might be cleared for while still quite far away from the airport.

To answer your specific question, ATC will send you over to the advisory frequency as soon as practicable, usually no later than the FAF. You can cancel IFR with them in the air (if conditions permit) or on the ground. If you break off the approach outside of the circling radii, you're not afforded any terrain/obstacle separation by the MDA, so only do that if you can see what you're doing. Otherwise, remain on the final approach course until you're within the circling radius, then maneuver for landing and do not leave the MDA until you're in a position to make a continuous descent to land (if IFR). If it's VFR weather, I would simply enter a VFR pattern to reduce the disruption to other aircraft that might be in the traffic pattern at the destination airport.

-- At what point do I begin advisories on the KAVX CTAF frequency? --as soon as I break off the instrument approach and being my visual approach? --or do I wait for SoCal to tell me "frequency change approved" somewhere along the way?

Logically, you can't leave Socal's frequency until they cut you loose (assuming single radio operation). Wait for them to cut you loose, then change over to AVX CTAF, monitor it for any activity (you don't want to barge in on any exchanges that are going on), then announce your position once you're within 10nm or so. And whatever you do, don't report "over RIGLI" on the CTAF. VFR pilots won't know/care where that is. Simply report distance and direction from the field so that the information is of use to everyone.

-M.[/quote]

Thanks for the answers Keith, very helpful.

I'd like a bit more clarification on the process at the very end of the approach. Say we've reached RIGLI and start our descent to the MDA at 2220 (I'm going from memory on that altitude; just substitute the correct MDA if I've got it wrong). At some point along the way after RIGLI and either at or above the MDA we find ourselves below the clouds with the airport in sight. What is the correct procedure from that point? What I'm particularly fuzzy about is the communication that should occur between me and SoCal AFTER I've been cleared for the VOR/DME approach.

On the precision approaches we've done for the other 'I' ratings, we got cleared for the ILS by approach control, flew down the localizer/GS and somewhere along the way between the IAF and FAF the approach controller would tell us to call the tower. We'd call the tower and (typically) they'd clear us to land. If we reached DH without the runway in sight, we executed the missed approach procedure (telling the tower that's what we were doing) and the tower would hand us back over to approach while we made our way to the missed approach fix. I always knew what to expect from a comms perspective, even though the timing of exactly when the various calls were made varied by a little bit.

Does the same communication pattern apply to a non-precision approach like this one? What instruction should we expect to hear from approach control as we get in the vicinity of RIGLI (inbound)? If a missed approach is necessary, do we advise of the missed approach on CTAF, then call SoCal back as we proceed to the mixed approach fix?