PilotEdge Forums

Hi everyone,

The other day, I was sitting down to fly and fired up Ken's excellent http://myflightroute.com/ tool to generate a route. It returned KPOC-KDAG, to which I thought "Great! Two airports I've never flown before."

Then I took a look at the sectional...

KPOC is nestled right up against the San Gabriel Mountains. Field elevation 1013 with a 5555 peak just a few miles northeast... and of course, KDAG is on the other side of the mountains.

Aircraft type is a Beech Bonanza F33. For a VFR routing, I was thinking I could skirt the north edge of the Ontario C after takeoff, then fly north through Cajon Pass (just north of Rialto L67 - thinking I should be able to climb up to around 6K by then which should be safe to transit the pass) then join V210 from there direct DAG.

Anyone have any other ideas of how you would plan this flight? I'd love to hear them.

And, for bonus... how would you plan it IFR? KPOC POM V210 DAG KDAG is the most direct, but the MEA from MEANT onward on V210 is 11500 - since it's an eastbound flight, that means a 13000 altitude, which is too high to go without oxygen (which, for the sake of the argument, let's say we don't have) - plus, even the segments right after POM are 10800, so how to handle that? Any other route suggestions?

Note I am not a real-world pilot, so I may be reading charts wrong or making other simple/fundamental errors. Corrections welcomed

VFR I'd do the same thing, just be careful of that route N of the ONT C, it can get quite bumpy and it's full of airplanes.

IFR, if it wasn't socal I'd say POM V264 V442 APLES V394 DAG (adds 7 NM or 3 minutes) however that goes right up the ONT final stream so you'd never get it. As a result I'd say for no O2 PDZ V442 APLES V394 DAG.

Of course to be 100% technical you could do the route you suggested legally with no O2 as you'd be above 12,500 for under 30 minutes, of course this assumes your plane can actually achieve that altitude quick enough to clear terrain (290 ft/nm min to 9000 after the mandatory ODP from POC). and you drop down after APLES.

One thing is certain - For IFR, you'd be assigned the ODP. This is from as close to real world information as we have.

From there on, I'd concur with PG, although taking PE environment into account, there is one other possibility. Due to the reasonably low traffic numbers, you could request direct KDAG or DAG VOR, at some point. There are some MVA/MIA's to dodge around L35, but it is reasonable. This would obviously not work in reality(just checked the RW SCT SOP, there are some notes about going literally N or NW, without landing E10, but nothing in terms of DAG).




Since you are wandering about random possibilities, there is one other, purely for the sake of it being a possibility. You could take ONTN1(PDZ V186 VNY at 6000), to VNY, and from there join the departure flow, going NE and E to DAG.

The route would be: KPOC.ODP.PDZ.V186.VNY..IPIHO.LAX323R.TWINE.V518.PMD.V12.BASAL.V394.DAG.KDAG

The MEA's are sufficiently low the whole way. After VNY, you'd request higher(I didn't put it into the FP, as I don't think US domestic FPs do that). You could also play with both how you file it, and how you fly it. Instead of "VNY..IPIHO.LAX323R.IPIHO", you could go with "VNY.V326.V23.IPIHO". It's the same thing, but written a bit more fancifully by having airways cross without a specific point(woooohoo!! ). Also after PMD, you could go via V12 or V386 till coming up on V394. There aren't any flows out there at those altitudes that I know of.

This version could cost you more fuel, but it'd make sure you stay alive and it also gives a great view of a bunch of little airports along the way, inclusive of some UAV-only military fields. KS can tell you sometime about how I almost mistook one of them for VCV once

Tim Krajcar wrote:Note I am not a real-world pilot, so I may be reading charts wrong or making other simple/fundamental errors. Corrections welcomed

Huh....what do you know. I always thought real world flying on the west coast was how you and KS met. Either way, you had me fooled whenever you flew online.

Hi Guys,

In real life, I'd file it just like Peter said "O2 PDZ V442 APLES V394 DAG" at 9000. Frankly, if flying VFR, I'd fly the same route just at +500 due to the terrain. I read this tip a while back. http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/tip-week/fly-vfr-ifr