PilotEdge Forums

Hi everyone!

I have a non-Pilotedge question for those Instrument Rated pilots out there. Due to a tremendous amount of studying and work on my part, I have been cruising along through my instrument training at a fairly good pace. My CFII has complimented me on my preparedness and general stick & rudder skills in BAI. However, I failed miserably in the (redbird) sim last night. We started advanced partial panel flying. I was able to fly quite well in most partial panel scenarios. Except one…. My instructor killed the entire G1000. Ok, no problem, I have all three back-up gauges (AI, airspeed, altimeter) and the compass. I successfully completed compass turns and altitude changes. I used small corrections in power and my ears in lieu of a tach watching the airspeed to adjust power when necessary. A standard rate turn at 90 KIAS in a Skyhawk is about 15-16 degrees of bank. Other than the gauges being in odd places, I was able to do it. Then he failed the AI and things got ugly quick. It only took about 20 seconds to find myself in the 70 degree death spiral! I was not able to keep the plane in straight and level flight without the AI. I can do it in a steam gauge plane that has a turn coordinator, but I couldn’t do it with just a compass, altimeter, and airspeed. I’ve read the Jepp book’s chapter on flying with just a whiskey compass. Unfortunately, the redbird does not simulate the bouncing and tilting of a real compass giving those cues.

Other than practice, do you all have any tips or tricks to help keep the plane flying with only a compass, airspeed, and altimeter in hard IMC???

I am only a PPL, learning IFR, but I'd have to suggest maybe logging som sim time with steam guages. I go back and forth in my planes just so I don;t get spoiled on the pretty glass panel displays. You could even fly something primitive like the Stinson just to get a stick and rudder feel with minimal instrumentation.

Is this panel failure in hardball IFR?

And Xplanes let you determine the failure rate for any system. For the cost of a 2nd monitor you can add a IOS station and just punch in the failures without even disturbing the sim. Simulate your own panel failures. Try flying on overcast night over the ocean, clouds on top, ocean below. It's so dark you have to fly instruments because otherwise you can't even tell if you're upside down or not.

How did you like the Redbird simulator?

Hi Daddyo,

Thank you for responding. To answer your first question, yes this is hard core IFR. BTW - I fly a lot in steam gauge planes. I fly my buddy's Lance II most often. However, I am getting my IFR training in the G1000. I have about 25 hours in G1000 Skyhawks and think it's a great set-up. When I fly my buddy's Lance II under the hood, I can fly pretty well partial panel with the turn coordinator, compass, airspeed, and altimeter. Take that TC away and I'm toast. This really isn't an issue with the G1000 (the failure is same in both planes i.e. electrical and vacuum). The result is me flying with only an altimeter, compass, and airspeed indicator. Regardless of the plane, I struggle flying hard core IFR with only these three instruments. BTW, my CFII said I wouldn't likely get that on the checkride. Thanks again...

You're right. I need to practice with xplane. I joined pilotedge and bought xplane to supplement my IFR training.

The redbird is nice. It's great for procedures, approaches, etc. It has been extremely helpful in my training. However, it is no substitution for flying a real plane.

The failure your instructor gave you was bogus. If he's going to put you in that situation, where you're 100% reliant on the compass...and the compass isn't behaving like the real thing, then what is the point of the exercise?

I wouldn't give it much thought. Maybe it's because I have only trained steam gauges, but even if the compass did behave properly, what would it take for the G-1000 to completely fail as well as the backup AI? Is that a scenario worth training for?

It bums me out that you'd be doing so well with your training, only to be put into what appears to be a completely unrealistic scenario that erodes your confidence and makes you second guess how you're going about your training.

I would ask the CFII to demonstrate the maneuver in the sim (no G-1000, no AI, flawed compass) and see how he believes it should be flown. I'd also find out if the scenario itself is valid...what would it take for the G-1000 to be taken completely offline, along with the backup AI?

+1 on Keith. That is one honking scenario.

Maybe something to think about once you are solid with IFR flying, but I don't see any useful out of that maneuver during training.

* Orest

Roger that guys...! I think he was having some good natured fun. Clearly for the G1000 to go dark with no warning and lose the backup vacuum is one helluva failure and there'd likely be much worse things going on to cause those failures. Again, my instructor very complimentary during the debrief and didn't say much about it. It was more of an internal "gee wizz I sucked on that one". Thanks for the replies! On I go. I hope to complete the checkride in early April.

If it was "fun" then that's fine. However, your last sentence in the original post was:

Other than practice, do you all have any tips or tricks to help keep the plane flying with only a compass, airspeed, and altimeter in hard IMC???

That means it had you going down the path of trying to prepare for that scenario, which seems like a waste of energy to me. Focus on the core training and the flying you're actually going to have to do, and plausible emergencies (G-1000 failing is a reasonable one to test. Failing backup instruments as well the G-1000....not so much). Now, if it's for "fun" that's fine, but it shouldn't alter the course of your training.

Again, Thanks for the advice! I won't spend a lot of time on that one...