PilotEdge Forums

Last week I was at KONT (Class C) and asked for flight following to KFUL. I called Ground and made my request and was asked to call Clearance Deliver for this. Which I did. Then ground to taxi, etc.

Tonight I was at at a controlled field (KCMA or Camarillo) but one that is not Class-B, C, or in a TRSA. I wanted flight following to KBUR so I checked the airport data and saw a frequency listing for Clearance Delivery. I asked the controller who I should talk to and he told me Ground.

One more. Last week I was at KPSP (TRSA) and called ground and automatically got a departure frequency and squawk code (surprising me)

What's the protocol here? Is it different from Class-D to Class-C to TRSA? I figured if Clearance was listed I should call it. What should I expect, or is it up the controller and how busy he is?

Thanks,
Brad

Hey Brad,

At Class D fields, often times Ground and Clearance are handled by the same controller. For VFR requests like FF, communicating on Ground is preferred since there is no need to isolate that request on another frequency. After all, once you receive the frequency and squawk, you'll most likely get the taxi instructions as well.

All the Class C airports I have either worked or flown out of have required by ATIS advertisement for all aircraft no matter what the flight rules to contact Clearance for departure instructions. Therefore, I would call Clearancy when at Class C airports.

Good to know. I'll listen more closely to ATIS at Class C or assume there to call Clearance

SoCal Approach automatically provides radar service to VFR aircraft departing the PSP TRSA unless they decline the service ("Cessna 123, request departure to the north, negative TRSA advisories.").

If clearance is available, call them for flight following requests. Even at John Wayne (SNA), you constantly hear the clearance controller saying, "Cessna 123, squawk VFR in the pattern, contact ground."

Anthony Santanastaso wrote: All the Class C airports I have either worked or flown out of have required by ATIS advertisement for all aircraft no matter what the flight rules to contact Clearance for departure instructions. Therefore, I would call Clearancy when at Class C airports.

Okay, so I was caught by this over the weekend when I contacted ground at KBUR to ask for FF on a VFR departure. Was deferred to Clnc Del. Now, Microsoft Flight sim may differ, but my copy of X-plane doesn't say to contact clnc del on the ATIS broadcast. Looking at the A/FD, it doesn't mention anything either (that I have seen). 4-3-14 "Communications" of the AIM says "Pilots of departing aircraft should communicate with the control tower on the appropriate ground control/clearance delivery frequency prior to staring engines to receive engine start time, taxi and/or clearance information." There is no mention here about any "class" of airport, just to use the "appropriate freq" and further searching of the AIM only refers to IFR aircraft contacting clnc del.

So my question is, I'm I missing something in the FAR-AIM or A/FD or is it on an airport by airport basis? If so, and if it is typically mentioned on an ATIS broadcast, is it a PE policy to have all pilots request clearance from clnc del at all classs Bravo, Charile and for that matter, Delta airports?

I believe that the reasoning behind contacting Delivery over Ground at a Class C airport is to reduce the congestion with control instructions that typically take a longer time to say and read back. In other words, instead if Ground having to deal with departure instructions and clearances while also monitoring the movement of aircraft about the airport, a Delievry controller disseminates the necessary information so that you call Ground simply for taxi. When you're the only aircraft at the airport it might not make sense, but realistically it does since there is typically more traffic at a Class C airport (versus, let's say, a typical Class D airport).

In my opinion, when at a Class C or B airport, always contact Delivery first. And, the only time I would call Delivery at a Class D airport (unless local procedure contradicts this) is when I am requesting an IFR clearance.

I always go by the airport diagram frequency list. If there is a clearance delivery listed, I use it.

Okay, so in other words, if it is available, use it. There is nothing in the regs that preclude you from using clnc del for VFR flight, correct?

currentadventure wrote:Okay, so in other words, if it is available, use it. There is nothing in the regs that preclude you from using clnc del for VFR flight, correct?

I wouldn't call the Delivery frequency if your intent is to fly VFR out of a Class D airport. Delivery in that circumstance (which, in my experience is often worked by the same person anyway) would be for IFR clearances.

I think the simple way to assume the correct procedure (short of calling a local FBO and inquiring with them how it is down, which I have done before) is to call Delivery for any request at a Class B and C airport, and Ground when departing VFR out of a Class D airport. Of course, if the ATIS said anything otherwise I would follow that, but in general, I think this way of thinking works the best.

Interestingly, I went back and reviewed an AOPA Air Safety document that discussed Operations at Towered Airports just to see if it shed light on this subject. And, in describing a hypothetical VFR flight out of KLGB, a Class D airport, it mentioned the following:

Because LGB is a Class D airport, a VFR departure clearance isn’t necessary, but local procedure recommends we call clearance delivery. The controller there prepares a “flight strip”—a document that includes information about our aircraft and runway assignment. This is passed to ground control. Because the strip is prepared for them, ground controllers can keep focused on the aircraft and vehicles moving on the field.

I put in bold two important pieces of information. Local procedure really dictates the proper sequence of radio communication and I would think that it is advisable to contact a local FBO or airport manager for their preferred procedures. In addition, the second sentence presents the idea that at busier airports (which LGB is a busier than normal Class D, just like HPN), Delivery is used as a means of taking away any additional distractions from the Ground controller while they focus on the movement of aircraft around the airport.

FYI, here is the link to the document: http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/sa07.pdf. There happens to be a lot of ZLA references in it.