PilotEdge Forums

Hi,

I did a TEC route today from KSNA to KOXR today and, after departure, the controller gave me vectors, vectoring past my first NAVAID...then pointing me toward an airway on the route and then cleared me direct to an intersection on the airway. I was flying with a GNS530 and during, flightplanning, had plugged in both VORs and a different intersection that defined the place where the airway made a bend, not the one he gave me. Scrambling, I figured I had two choices. I knew about where the fix was on the route and it looked like he pointed me, pretty much, right at it. I figured I could stay on the heading to the airway and then join my route or I press "Direct" and dial in the intersection fast. I did the latter. Seemed like the right thing to do. So my questions are:

1) Are you supposed to have all fixes along your route predialed into your flight plan just in case? The GNS 530 doesn't do that automatically.
2) Is pointing someone at an intersection when they're off the route something they do for aircraft that have a GPS or can they do the same for aircraft that, say, only have a VOR/DME? (If I hadn't had a GNS the best I think I could have done would have been knowing the radial that made up that part of the airway and taking a best guess as to how to navigate over to the radial at about the right distance.)
3) I assume ATC can give you any intersection at any time and I guess you just deal with it best you can?...use your GPS or whip out a chart, find a nearby radial that makes it, navigate to it and use either DME or another navaid to know when you're there.

I'm just looking for best practices and advice. How do most pilots deal with this kind of situation?

Thanks.

1) As always, prepare for the unexpected. If you file with an equipment code that indicates you have a GPS, ATC may clear you to a fix on any airway portion of your flight plan. Airline pilots often double check their FMS to be certain that all fixes for departure procedure, en route airways, and arrival procedures are accurate. Sometimes what a GPS or FMS provides isn't always accurate.

2) Aircraft with VOR navigation only are treated differently than those that are GPS equipped. GPS aircraft are understood to have all the waypoints in their flight plan programmed, hence why a controller would clear them directly to one of them. VOR navigation only aircraft need to join airways by using VOR radials. In that case a pilot would be instructed either direct a VOR or would be given a vector to join an airway.

3) You could always just file as /A, primarily use VOR navigation for your flight and use the GPS as a secondary navigation tool. If you file indicating you're GPS equipped, be prepared to be cleared direct any waypoint on your flight plan.

Controllers use the information you supply on your flight plan to properly help you. Remember that if you become confused or aren't sure how to handle something, it's better to let ATC know BEFORE you do something unintended that could endanger your safety.

Okay. As far as I could tell, what he asked was reasonable. I just needed to know about what expectations the controller has and what I should prepare for. You can't plan for everything but you try to plan for what is normal and some extra. The rest you just need to be flexible for. I also got to thinking about my 182Q and it's lowly equipment. I handled it...no worries.

The 'activate leg' feature of the GPS is very useful for these cases where you have the airway setup, but not necessarily the exact intersection along the airway. Practically speaking, there are two ways to handle this case:
1) request a vector instead to join the airway if your GPS is setup to effectively track the airway, but not direct to a specific intersection along the airway,
or
2) request an initial vector to the fix, edit the filght plan, insert it into the list, then go direct to the fix.

ATC is almost never going to care if you're going direct to a fix on the airway, or are on a heading to join the airway. Operationally, there's just no real difference between the two. What we really care about is whether you can join the airway or not (there shouldn't be any case where you can't join the airway).

ATC doesn't know that going direct to a fix on the airway might be some work for you, so don't feel shy about requesting a functional equivalent that is much simpler for you to do, it's no hassle for us.

FWIW, I encounter this from time to time...and I usually opt for #2. I don't even request the vector as long as I'm sure about the spelling of the waypoint...I'll just bang it into the GPS (within the flight plan, not as a standalone 'direct to'). Otherwise, if I need time to look it up or work out roughly where it is along the airway (so I can work out where to insert it in the sequence of fixes in the flight plan), I'll go ahead and request the vector to the fix.

I'd just request a heading to join and then select "Activate Leg" on the RXP GNS530W. If you fly other flight sim addons, like PMDG's 737, that will automatically fill in the intersections along the airway... very handy.

Thanks. That's a good suggestion asking for a vector toward the fix. I could see that I was on a vector directly toward the airway and was pretty close to heading toward the fix and, luckily, I knew the spelling. I went back to my GNS after the flight and learned how to insert the fix directly in the route...kind of simpler.

Ryan B wrote:I'd just request a heading to join and then select "Activate Leg" on the RXP GNS530W. If you fly other flight sim addons, like PMDG's 737, that will automatically fill in the intersections along the airway... very handy.

Hi Ryan. Do people fly the NGX on Pilot Edge? (None of my off-network ATC joins me to an airway like this so it would have to be on-network.) I guess I could imagine Bakerfield, Palm Springs, Las Vegas, LAX, John Wayne and San Diego, I guess. They should add Hawaii, yes? LOL. Still, the Turbine Duke and learning all the procedures is a real hand full for me right now.

I fly the NGX and the PMDG JS41 all the time on the network.

Here's a record of some of the people who have flown the NGX recently:
http://peaware.pilotedge.net/aircraft.cfm?code=B738

Keith Smith wrote:Here's a record of some of the people who have flown the NGX recently:
http://peaware.pilotedge.net/aircraft.cfm?code=B738

I forgot about Burbank and Ontario (I always, always forget about Ontario). I checked and 757 fly out of KSMX in the RW. Santa Barbara's a bit of a stretch. B737s fly out of St. George (KSGU...uncontrolled). A320s fly in and out of Long Beach. Nothing big flies out of KTRM.

EDIT: They don't fly out of Yuma but I did notice an MD11 fly out of there.