PilotEdge Forums

Hello,

I just finished doing a few flights during the trial period for PilotEdge and I wanted to post some feedback. First, a little bit about me. I have been around aviation my whole life with my father flying in the Navy and when I was born he left the Navy and used the GI Bill to get his CFII/+ certs and took me up a lot. He stopped flying in the early 90s, however, and I never did anything more. The past few years I have regained interest in aviation using flight simulators as a means to enjoy the hobby since I didn't have the money to pursue training. This changed a year ago and I am a couple of weeks away from taking my first instruction flight and have been studying all the books and rules I can in the meantime.

Which brings me to PilotEdge!

Luckily, I live in San Diego not far from MYF which is an added bonus for PE and is probably what drew me to the trial. It took me a few attempts to get my headset working. I finally did and I was off for a flight from SDM->SEE via the VFR corridor for touch-and-goes then finishing at MYF. I have also done a second flight from MYF->SEE->SDM->MYF.

A few observations:
1. I under-estimated the amount of workload talking adds to flying. I was incredibly stressed.
2. It's amazing how getting a message from the controller that's different from expected messed me up and threw me for a loop. On my approach to SEE, I expected right traffic to 27R but instead got left traffic to 27R which is the usual entry in reality but new to me. I was expecting either right for 27R or left for 27L. I had to ask a few times over to get it through my head.
3. Writing down everything correctly so you can read it back takes practice!
4. Even remembering your callsign and to say it correctly is incredibly hard.

Overall, this is a fantastic tool as those are all issues I am sure I will have to deal with when I get in the real plane but I'll be that much further ahead when the time comes.

I did have a couple of bumps:

1. On my second flight leaving SEE and approaching SDM airspace I called SDM tower but never got an answer. After a few attempts and circling around Mt Helix, I called SEE again and didn't receive a response from there, either, despite having just been in comms with them earlier. I decided that I would head back to my home port of MYF at that point which I did and got a controller at the tower there.

2. I was asked to Ident which I hit on both the PE window and the plane's panel and apparently the controller did not receive it despite trying a few times.

3. I think you need more AI drones! I rarely saw much traffic. On my first flight I saw a lot of traffic as I flew over SAN; however, that appeared to be from my AI traffic program, not the PE drones. It's a heavily congested airspace in reality and is always fun flying around and watching airliner ops going on around you.

4. I wouldn't mind hearing some more corrective feedback from the controllers when us pilots obviously say something incorrectly. Real controllers will do this, too, either explicitly if short or implicitly like I heard when a real student pilot asked for runway "twenty three" at MYF and the controller confirmed by saying "Clear to land. Runway TWO. THREE." I know I messed up a lot as do others on here which is a good part of the reason we are here -- to learn and practice.

5. A few times I would hear the controller on different frequencies. For example, on my second flight I heard his reports on other airports while listening to SEE's tower. I never heard other pilots and I know I didn't hear all of his communications but it was very disconcerting -- I am hoping this is a bug or something that will be fixed in the future.

Finally, I would like to add that I am glad you offer the recordings. I was able to play them back for my father who was able to give me some critiques and feedback, namely to stop using superlative words ("I would like to..", "I'd like to request..." etc).

All in all I had a great couple of flights and I hope to see PE continue to grow. I will be subscribing as it's not only a valuable learning tool but a lot of fun, too.

- N921PP, N213TW

Thanks for the detailed post, it's always great to get to know the backgrounds of pilots who fly with us. I really think it's going to help you a great deal as you progress through your real world training. It's pretty much a no-brainer!

To your list of issues:
1. See if you can replicate that one. The most likely cause is that the radio was mis-tuned, or perhaps you used an alternate source of frequency information on that particular flight and it gave you an out of date data point. The former is more likely than the latter, though. From a technical standpoint, since we generally have one person working all the tower positions, if you can reach one of the towers, then you should be able to reach all of them, provided they are within range based on your altitude (ruling out a more technical issue).

2. It might have been a newer controller who was unaware that the ident feature in FSX is inoperative at the moment. That's something which I need to resolve.

3. Yes, we do need more drones. Socal is a massive area, and filling it with planes is not an easy task. I recently started adding more drones do the area around SNA and the coast. Next will be the area near SAN (or as close as I can get without violating the Bravo), then SBA and CMA. Bear in mind, these won't be airliner flights. We don't do drones into towered airports, generally speaking.

4. Until we implement a 'feedback level' setting in the dialogue box, it's hard for ATC to know what level of feedback pilots are looking for on their flight. Nearly every controller here has had experience where any form of feedback for the pilot results in them disconnecting from the network. We generally do give feedback on the big items, "you can't taxi on a taxiway at a towered airport without speaking to ground first," but some of the softer phraseology issues we sometimes let through without a comment. Pointing out every single thing a pilot does would result in a lot of non-ATC transmissions, which compromises some of the effectiveness and reality of the environment. Ideally, we'd have a private back channel we could open with that pilot to share some suggestions with them. The best time for all of this to happen would probably be if they're taking part in our pilot training program (http://training.pilotedge.net). That would be a clear sign that they're interested in detailed feedback, in lieu of having an actual software setting in the pilot client.

5. Our controllers generally work multiple frequencies, just like controllers often do in the real world. It's a daily occurrence to have one controller working clearance, ground and tower at a towered airport. Additionally, it's common for enroute and approach controllers to work multiple frequencies. We're just doing it on a bigger scale, but conceptually, it's the same thing. Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_CNPPIdwbw. Notice at the 14 sec mark, we hear the controller issue an instruction to an aircraft and we don't hear a response? In fact, the same thing continues throughout that entire video, we don't hear a single other airplane.

I hope you'll continue to enjoy the network, and I look forward to hearing about your real world training progression! Keep us all in the loop!

Hi Keith,

I just read your post about drones and now see why San Diego is largely empty since most of it is under Class B airspace. Maybe eventually you'll come up with ways to add aircraft under B and be able to give them simple commands (go around, divert, etc) so they can mingle with us sentient folks, too

That's a good point on feedback. In the real world, controllers don't worry about losing customers and I see that from your point-of-view. A feedback level would be great.

Also, since you and your controllers oversee a ton of airports, I don't expect local procedures to be exact but are you interested in knowing what they are for certain airports, or is it not worth the effort to try to catalog the main visual reference points for them?

PS This may fall under the feedback issue but I hear a lot on the network "with the numbers" and "with the weather." Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't controllers supposed to ask which information a pilot has if not specified with "information X?"

Hey Timmer,

With regards to ATIS codes: the PE network doesn't enforce weather in the sim, so you can be flying in any weather you want. I personally try and use real world weather but it's certainly not required. Since PE doesn't enforce weather, there is no way to synchronize ATIS codes. In the real world, yes ATC will probably push you about a specific ATIS code, but on PE there is no way to do that. I usually check in with whatever code the sim gives me and ATC acknowledges but it means just as much as "have the weather".

Thanks for the response. That does make sense.

Also, since you and your controllers oversee a ton of airports, I don't expect local procedures to be exact but are you interested in knowing what they are for certain airports, or is it not worth the effort to try to catalog the main visual reference points for them?

We have gone to great lengths to replicate the local IFR departure procedures for each airport, and in cases where specific headings and altitudes are assigned for VFR departures, we've done that, too (such as at SNA, ONT, etc).

However, for local procedures involving visual references, we typically don't do it because a) those procedures are not terribly well documented, and b) many sims don't have the required visual references, and c) the majority of our clients are not expecting that level of service at those fields, and would not be prepared to fly that type of procedure.

As a So Cal native and IFR rated pilot, I can vouch for the accuracy of the IFR departure procedures. When I first signed up for PilotEdge and did a flight out of my home field of KSMO, I was definitely not expecting the controller here to know about our noise abatement departure, which as far as I know is not documented anywhere publicly.* But sure enough, I get my clearance: "upon departure, fly runway heading until reaching the LAX 315 radial..." just like real life!

* It's probably written in an LOA somewhere, but those aren't available to mere mortal pilots.

Great stuff. My comments were related to VFR landmarks -- a bit trickier for local parley I since they aren't documented.

I'll be staying away from IFR for quite a while. I have plenty of RL flying stuff to learn. I'm creaking slowly through the Naval Aviators book because the other handbooks don't have enough physics in them

I am also learning that I am terrible in actually executing radio communications. I have decided I cannot tell after I've heard it if ATC referred to me via my full callsign or a shortened one so I keep using the full sign. I also seem to want to say "Thanks" too much! Darned polite upbringing

This is definitely a helpful service.

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying "thank you" too much. I flew with an older pilot earlier this year and at the end of every transmission he would end with "thank you, sir." Whenever I hear his Cessna 150M (N66255) or his Piper Cherokee (N15596) on LiveATC I know it's Ralph flying if I hear the "thank you, sir" at the end. Both are club planes and he's the only one who ends with the thanks. When I'm handed off to the next controller, I almost always say thanks. I think it's a good habit and doesn't take up too much air time.

Hello Steven,

True enough, but I was saying that in lieu of my callsign when responding to a request. I definitely think having a balance between 100% formal AIM speak and niceties is a good goal -- I am trying to enforce the formal responses on myself until I get those down.

Thanks for the feedback!