PilotEdge Forums

This has come up only a couple of times for me, so I thought I should get it cleared up.

Tonight I flew out of KBUR to KSBA. I filed the VNY9.FIM departure to the TEC route BURN39. Departed Rwy 15. On the Departure Plate (pg 2 continuation) the procedure states "Climbing right turn heading 210° . . . . . . . expect radar vector to VNY VOR/DME. Thence via (transition) or (assigned route)."

I flew the 210 heading... but continued well past where I would have expected a vector to VNY to continue the DP to IPIHO, SUANA to FIM.
I could hear the controller pretty busy with other flights. Almost to the coast, near SMO, I was cleared direct to FIM.

I guess I'm unsure what I should have done, if anything. Should have I requested a vector to VNY when it didn't come as "expected?" Or should have I turned direct VNY myself since I was cleared on the departure?" I think I am not sure exactly how to interpret the plate instructions "expect". Of course, in my mind there could have been other traffic out of my sight that ATC was tracking and keeping me outta harm's way, so I just stayed on heading until told otherwise, but I got to thinking maybe I had a responsibility to do something other than what I did.

What, if anything different, should I have done?

Don

The only time "EXPECT" has any significant meaning is during lost comms. Practically speaking, you're rarely going to be sent all the way back to the VNY VOR.

You should absolutely not make a turn back towards VNY on your own at some random point. You are guaranteed separation from IFR traffic while you're on the 210 hdg, that's what the controller is expecting. If you turn without a clearance, all that goes away.

Perhaps the controller could've/should've turned you sooner. If you feel that way, you should query the controller, "verify you want us on the 210 heading?" That should prod them into action. That sector runs out of airspace a little bit before an east/west line through the SMO VOR. It comes up pretty quick, though.

If I'm swamped as a controller, I'll typically say, "radar contact, reaching 3000 turn right direct TWINE, climb and maintain 13,000." That's the 'set it and forget it' method that doesn't require me to come back and give you a turn once you're above 3k (which is the MVA in that area).

It's a great question. The responsibility is almost entirely with the controller, but once you have some local knowledge, you start working out when you should be getting turned (reaching 3k). The question then becomes is the controller swamped, or has the controller forgotten you? In the former case, not much you can do other than try to get a word in as briefly as possible. Because we have one controller working lots of frequencies (typically), it can be hard to tell what's going on but if you haven't heard a word from the controller's mouth in 45+ seconds, there's a chance you've been temporarily forgotten, if that helps.

KS did a good job of explaining what to do. In terms of what happened.

For some reason your target disappeared from our radar screen, most likely due to a short term disconnection. During the time you were disconnected a controller swap happened and because you had appeared to have been disconnected you weren't included in the new controller briefing. So when you reappeared a few miles north of SMO there was a bit of confusion of who you were and what you were doing. This is why you were on that heading for so long.

Thx, PG. That makes a lot of sense. Don's setup has had issues in the past, based on his own comments.

Thanks for the clarification, Keith & Peter. Appreciated! It seems to be the questions that I don't ask and get cleared up in my own mind, that ultimately lead to greater problems.

It wouldn't be the first time that my sudden appearance produced confusion -- but sadly enough, as Keith points out, my current setup does glitch far more than it should. This should be remedied in the coming months, as I am able to upgrade my system.

Thanks!