PilotEdge Forums

KSNA Airport diagram

I boot up my sim with my default flight on the SE ramp at SNA, so I usually get 19L for departure.

Well, last night I had a shaky start to my I-3 rating flight after calling East Ground.....

GND: "Taxi to runway 19R via A, H, C. Hold Short 19L at K."

So my plan was to get to 19L at K, then call GROUND back again for permission to cross 19L, then move to and hold short of 19R at K... at which point, I would have switched to TOWER for takeoff clearance.

However, once I reached 19L at K and called GROUND, I was told that I needed to call TOWER instead.

So I called the same TOWER (East), that I always call when holding short of 19L, and was told that I needed to call WEST TOWER

So then WEST TOWER gave me the takeoff clearance for 19R before I'd even crossed 19L ("cross 19L, cleared for takeoff 19R at K...." etc.)

Well, I guess it all makes sense. But here's my question...

How would this play out at a larger airport, e.g. Altanta? Let's say you're parked at the "South Cargo Ramp" and are departing runway 26R, i.e. you've got 3 runways to cross. Surely you wouldn't be calling TOWER (and which Tower?!) for each of those?

I'm happy to read any references or regs that I'm pointed to. I just figured that if I botched that up, others might too.....

On the bright side, I did pass the I-3.

Peter Grey can probably fill you in on the details of Atlanta but from what I've seen and heard, ATL is definitely a Charlie Fox when it comes to the runway crossings.

Places like O'Hare or something, it's normal to get taxi instructions like "exit left A1, join B westbound, expect more with ground..." just to keep planes moving and prevent traffic jams. Ground might issue the same, "runway 22L, taxi via A, B, C... expect further on C."

Whoever you initially call, they'll be able to direct you to the appropriate controller/frequency handling the movement areas. Ground might coordinate the runway crossings with local (something you wouldn't hear on frequency), "local, ground, cross runway 26R at M15 with one/two/three (# of aircraft that need to cross)?" Or if local is really busy you might get switched to tower for the crossing and then over to ground again on the other side.

Each airport tends to be a little different on how they handle runway crossings. We try our best to emulate how it's done at the various ZLA airports (to the extent we can).

How would this play out at a larger airport, e.g. Altanta? Let's say you're parked at the "South Cargo Ramp" and are departing runway 26R, i.e. you've got 3 runways to cross. Surely you wouldn't be calling TOWER (and which Tower?!) for each of those?

Well, I happen to fly in and out of ATL on a regular basis (3 times today alone actually), so here it how this would work here:

First off runway 26R isn't used for departures, runway 26L is. However to keep in the spirit of the question we will say you are re-positioning from South Cargo to North Cargo.

I'll start by saying that this is a long event (20-30 minutes), so it is quite insane. By the time we are done we will have used 7 different ATC frequencies (we will assume it's somewhat busy)

The aircraft would start by calling Ground on 121.65 for initial taxi. The most likely instruction here is "Taxi via R12, R, hold short runway 27L"

Approaching 27L "monitor tower 119.3"

On 119.3

"Cross 27L, turn left on N, hold short Papa"

Approaching P (yes on the other end of the runway)

"At Papa, cross 27R, join L, contact ground 121.75" (Note departures from 27R depart from intersection M2, so there is no chance of a head to head here)

Once on L you'll notice there isn't actually a way to get to the North side of the airport without either using a ramp, or the non movement area of taxiway Dixie (named Dixie to prevent confusion with Delta airlines, which has a couple departures a day from ATL). Ground will advise what ramp you'll go through (most likely D), so...

"Taxi via L, Dixie, contact ramp tower 131.37"

Even though it's a non movement area, it's still controlled by a ramp tower (run by Delta airlines, or the city of Atlanta).

Ramp will provide the transition North via Dixie, and tell you to "hold short F, contact ground 121.90"

This new ground control will tell you to "taxi via Dixie, hold short runway 26L, monitor tower 125.32"

At some point this tower will tell you to "Cross 26L, hold short runway 26R, monitor tower, 119.10"

Soon followed by "Cross 26R, join A, contact ground 121.90 (again)"

Ground will taxi you to the North cargo via A.

Fun Fact: During the big ATL hub pushes there are 19 controllers working in the ATL tower, or the ramp towers (directly moving aircraft or assisting in the moving of aircraft). 5 Towers, 3 ground controllers, 2 metering positions, Clearance Delivery, and 8 ramp towers).

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So what's the name of the game here, listen to ATC and they will guide you where you need to be and tell you who to contact. If you're in doubt ask (as every airport is different, very different, trust me on that one).