PilotEdge Forums

Today I was going to fly a practice V3 with an adder.... A touch and go then back to the mini route to Oxnard, the focus flight for tonight. I didnt chicken out as it was Valentines day. But now I want to post a question. If I flew the Coastal Route, returned to Torrence on the Mini Route but did a touch and go to rejoin the mini route north for a transition to land at Oxnard - when, how, what, would I have said to Torrence tower to get me on track for the Mini route North? And what will I expect or have to do to join the Mini Route to get there? I am guessing at some point I would tell Torrence Tower... "Touch and go departing north to Mini Route thru Bravo." Then SMO after LAX "Landing Oxnard. For fun, from Oxnard, I was going to return on the Hollywood route with my final desination as John Wayne. Yes, a bit aggressive, but I enjoy more than a 15 or 20 minute flight... especially when I am kept busy.

So.... what would I expect? I know enough to stay clear of Bravo, but will I be given initial altitude from Torrence? Initial heading? I dont mind making mistakes online. But since this is partly a learning environment, I dont mind posting this before the flight to keep my mistakes to a minimum. I'm gonna do this flight tomorrow (Sat) even thought the focus airports will have changed. Who knows, if the experience is positive, I may just touch and go to the next airport for tomorrows Focus airports.

I was going to do this on the fly letting John Wayne Clearance know my concerns. But now I am posting it to get a more detailed answer. Sorry if this seems silly. My expereince in the north east as a real world VFR pilot is quite docile as the Mid-Hudson Valley is easy to navigate and fly VFR. The Hudson River, Catskills, Aderondaks and Atlantic Ocean are dead give aways when navigating VFR.... you can never get too lost! Pretty much stay above 3000 feet and watch for traffic and unless you approach New York City, it is a non-factor. Contact NY Tracon if I wanted flight following if I was heading far enough away. California airspace is much more complex, and I am sorry to say that my VFR skills just dont match this level. But I joined PE to make it an experience that I never had and to learn past what I never flew. I love this organization for giving me what I was never able to attain. My goal for the world to hear is to get far enough into the IFR check rides to feel comfortable flying anywhere. BTW: I am V2 and yes V3 will be had if I dont screw up too much.

Thanks in advanced,

Frank

I don't know what it expect because I'm a little rusty on VFR bravo routes.

But if you're going from TOA to OXR I'd ask Torrence tower (before your touch and go - or stay in the pattern till it's coordinated) for flight following to OXR via mini route. They'd coordinate it all with squawk code and everything so you'd get radar service there. Of course you'll still need the bravo clearance via the routes.

But the key is to tell where you're going and how you plan on going there.

Thank you Ryan. I flew the mini yesterday a couple of times and made so many radio errors. But the controllers were great in pointing me in the right direction, and a couple of times, at least I had the sense to turn around before breaking the Bravo. Albeit they were right on the line... at least I had the correct thought process. I could fly the V3 textbook, but I am trying to understand procedure and deal with the un-forseen. Until I can get ahead of the airplane dealing with it, I am in no rush. I'm having a blast learning!

Thanks again for the input. I'll be a little more clear in my next attempts as you suggested.

I do a similar flight often on the network (and sometimes in the RW) and all you need to do is tell Torrance tower you're departing north for the Mini Route and they'll hand you off to HHR tower at the appropriate time. They won't give you a heading but they may tell you to proceed to the Hawthorne/405 intersection (VPLSR) which is the beginning of the Mini Route. They may or may not tell you to climb to 2500, which you should know already if choosing this transition.

As for Flight Following while ON the Mini Route, that's a negative. You'll be talking to HHR, LAX and SMO towers already. Hawthorne tower will give you a squawk code though, if you don't already have one. When handed off to SMO tower, your initial call could be "Santa Monica tower, Cessna 123AB, northbound Mini Route, request flight following to Oxnard" and they'll hand you off to SoCal Approach, who'll keep you on your beacon code.

I hope I didn't stray too far from what your actual questions were.

Perfect Jeff. That laid it out very nicely. My first mini route was north bound from John Wayne. I requested Flight Following for the mini-route and was on 127.2 after departure. I turned to the west far enough south of the Bravo, flew on the mini-route radial, and within a mile or so of busting the Bravo started my turn away and asked CoCal if I was cleared into the Bravo. He mentioned that I should have headed more south from John Wayne and ask to switch to Hawthorne.

So it was apparent I wasnt fully prepared for the radio part flying it. With your explaination to my initial question, it ties it all together nicely for me. Thanks!

About FF - I'd still ask as you've got a long way to go to OXR after clearing the route... I didn't mean to presume you'd get radar from those towers (LAX might) but that you'd probably want FF in a congested airspace on your way to OXR. I guess Jeff flies there IRL - maybe they don't do FF at all due to controller workload but on PE it's fine.

Hi Frank, welcome aboard. Hope to see you in the real skies, as I am an N90 flier based out of FRG.

I tried to reread the thread and determine where there might be some confusion about various types of radar services. You wouldn't need, or categorize it as being, flight following (a form of radar service) while on the mini route because you are already under radar contact while in the Bravo; therefore, you are receiving separation services and traffic advisories. LAX Tower is a full radar tower which means that it can use all forms of radar control including the application of vectors (above minimum vectoring altitude, of course), speed control, radar identification, radar traffic advisories, and the assignment of beacon codes.

Let's say you're planning on flying the mini route from the south, having just departed LGB, TOA, SNA, or the like. As many have previously remarked, you will most likely transition various Class Delta airspaces on your way to HHR, which is the first ATCT to coordinate your entry through the Class Bravo (though they will not issue the clearance). While transitioning through, let's say, LGB or TOA, you will be communicating with a tower facility that has full radar control capabilities. Simply put, this means that they will be capable (controller workload permitting) to provide similar traffic advisories as the TRACON would. This means you do not have to specifically ask for flight following as it will automatically be an option to you throughout your transition. Then, when in HHR airspace, you will receive a squawk code, transfered to LAX Tower who will radar identify you and clear you into the LAX Bravo, and eventually terminate your radar services just prior to entering SMO airspace (SMO ATCT only has limited radar capabilities). It is at this time that you would need to request continued radar services to your destination as SMO Tower would then point you to the correct frequency in which to receive flight following.

If you're flying southbound on the mini route, the process is similar depending on your requested VFR altitude. Once outside the LAX Bravo on the end of the mini route within HHR airspace, if you wish to climb above the LGB and TOA Class D airspaces and still receive flight following, then you would need to make that request. Just like SMO, HHR Tower would then direct you to the appropriate TRACON frequency.

I hope that this makes sense! I look forward to working you on the network.

Thank you for that detailed explaination! That certainly cleared up a lot of the holes that I had as far as when to contact who. I printed out the threads and am making my own bullets to work from. Tomorow evening I posted a flight that I am going to make thru 3 of the Bravo routes. With your help, I may have half a chance to stay ahead instead of catching up to the radio work load.

Thanks again and yes, I look forward to working with you in the air. This is a great learning experience!