PilotEdge Forums

Hi All,

I'm gradually building up the nerve to take a shot at the V-01 rating.

I've read and watched all related material on PE. In the 'Jing' video the instructor mentions it's important not to drift away from the runway centerline during the upwind leg. Apart from opening a view in FSX for 'Top-Down', how does one do this? It's really not possible to see the runway under you as you climb during TO.

Thanks in advance for enlightening me!

Best,

Lucky

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You can usually establish your crosswind correction very quickly after taking off, while the runway is still in sight. In some cases, you can pick a visual reference directly ahead of you and make sure you stay in line with it.

Hey Keith,

You can usually establish your crosswind correction very quickly after taking off, while the runway is still in sight.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does that mean we should choose a takeoff climb angle from which we can see the runway in front of us?

Best,

Lucky

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In my real flying, after the climb speed is stable, I check at 200 feet by looking back through the rear windows. You just need to be sure you're not drifting, especially if there is a parallel runway. I've had experiences where I've been climbing out next to another plane on the parallel runway, and it's quite unnerving to see the plane slowly drifting in your direction.

julio.elizalde wrote:In my real flying, after the climb speed is stable, I check at 200 feet by looking back through the rear windows. You just need to be sure you're not drifting, especially if there is a parallel runway. I've had experiences where I've been climbing out next to another plane on the parallel runway, and it's quite unnerving to see the plane slowly drifting in your direction.

I know that John Wayne actually asks pilots to depart and approach runway 19L at a 15 degree angle. 19L and 19R are pretty close together!

I usually start making the turn at 400 ft AGL subject to obstacle clearances

Note: This method is overkill for 99% of pattern flying, but should provide the most accurate upwind track possible for those who are interested. The methods listed above are more then adequate for basic pattern flying.

Ok with that disclaimer out of the way. In a past life I used to be part of a precision competition flying team, one of the things we competed in was accurate pattern work. We were required to hold the runway center line on the upwind to an accuracy level of the runway width (So on a 150' wide runway we could be off on our ground track by 75' on either side).

Here is how you do that. When on the runway aligned with the center line pick 2 points in from of you. 1 should be just past the end of the runway the 2nd as far out as you can positively identify a point. Imagine a line between those 2 points and note any other reference point they go over. We did this well in advance of the competition for each runway and used satellite imagery to back those points up. I'd recommend doing it offline here for those who are interested.

After you takeoff set a proper wind correct angle (a crosswind of 10% of your TAS requires 6 degree correction) and verify it by A. making sure you are flying over the line. B. Ensure that your 2 points are still along that line (not skewed to the left or right). If you are off on your correction the points will look "skewed" in the sense that you are viewing the points from a different angle so they won't align anymore.

For example if you are using a tree and a mountain lined up behind it the tree won't be lined up with the mountain if you are off. Note the angle of the aircraft relative to the line is not relevant.

Finally (in aircraft capable of this) you can verify by looking back at the runway (over your right shoulder if you are in the left seat so as to not induce a parallax error). The runway should be aligned with your near point (point close to the runway you identified before takeoff) using the same method as above. Once again the angle of the plane (the tail in this case) isn't relevant.

Thank you all for your expert insights. I say from experience that it is unlikely one can get such detailed assistance anywhere else on the web.

Based on your advice, what I will try to do is identify three 12 o'clock reference points as well as look through the 172's rear window.

Thanks again!

Regards,

Lucky

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luckyb52 wrote: Hey Keith,

You can usually establish your crosswind correction very quickly after taking off, while the runway is still in sight.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does that mean we should choose a takeoff climb angle from which we can see the runway in front of us?

Best,

Lucky

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In the plane I fly, the initial deck angle is relatively flat to pick up speed for reasons of cooling. But, even when I was flying a 172, I would still use that technique off the runway. With practice, you establish the correction angle within a couple of seconds. You can also reference the runway a lot easier in the aircraft than you can a sim. After that, you can reference the more distant object, independent of the runway (similar to what PG was suggesting).

Keith:

Thanks for that insight.

I've been studying your pattern work video very closely, multiple times, and see that (as you mentioned) you do your crosswind correction seconds after wheels leave the ground. But I'm still bewildered at that... the runway was not visible during the correction and there were no distant visual fixes. Your heading indicator displayed runway heading, yet you still knew you had to correct and by how much.

Could you please share the secret sauce with me?

Cheers,

Lucky


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