PilotEdge Forums

I've picked up a few FSEconomy assignments and welcome a critique of my plans:

http://skyvector.com/?ll=33.84935965584 ... :A.K2.KAVX

KEMT to KBUR:
VFR w/FF at 3000 ft

KBUR to KCPM:
VFR w/FF at 3500 ft, with the SFRA bravo transition.

KCPM to KAVX:
VFR w/FF and initial altitude of 4500 ft (then up to 6500 ft once south of the Queen Mary, VPLQM).

Does that seem reasonable?

Everything looks fine to me. Is there any reason why you're climbing to 6500 from Compton to Avalon? Seems a bit high.

Thanks.

I was just thinking it would be a little safer to be that high over 30 miles of water vs 4500ft (especially when Catalina is almost 2k high).

It's funny though, FSEconomy is probably going to make a tight wad out of me... and now I'm thinking that the additional 2k climb might cost a few [unecessary] bucks.

Just make sure all seats are full and you fly a plane with low fuel burn per hour, and you will be okay and make money.

I am flying around a C208 and making plenty of money.

Cyrus wrote:Thanks.

I was just thinking it would be a little safer to be that high over 30 miles of water vs 4500ft (especially when Catalina is almost 2k high).

It's funny though, FSEconomy is probably going to make a tight wad out of me... and now I'm thinking that the additional 2k climb might cost a few [unecessary] bucks.

Sure thing. I think that it's pretty normal to see people flying across the water at 4500ft or lower toward Avalon. If you were to have an engine out more than halfway there, the terrain on Catalina is so sharp that you may have better chances just to ditch into the water near some boats. It's not a bad idea to have an over-water kit on board.

I'd either do the mini-route (to go lower), or I'd scoot under the Bravo just east of the surface based bravo. Otherwise, good.

NameCoin wrote: Sure thing. I think that it's pretty normal to see people flying across the water at 4500ft or lower toward Avalon. If you were to have an engine out more than halfway there, the terrain on Catalina is so sharp that you may have better chances just to ditch into the water near some boats. It's not a bad idea to have an over-water kit on board.

Well, I didn't have an engine out. But I did accidentally hit a key and disabled my yoke/throttle controller... just a few miles shy of AVX. I was completely hosed up for the remainder of the flight, fumbling around with all the controls/buttons. Only on the ground was I able to figure out what I did. So I had tried to circle the field and glide in with only the keyboard for control (keyboard assignments that I never use and which were conflicting with my EzDok views! ). Ordinarily I would have quit the flight, but I had to land to get my FSE cash . Here's the spaghetti for your viewing enjoyment: http://peaware.pilotedge.net/flight.cfm?id=65863

Keith Smith wrote:I'd either do the mini-route (to go lower), or I'd scoot under the Bravo just east of the surface based bravo. Otherwise, good.

Thanks, Keith. I actually went with the "scoot under the Bravo just east..." option, but it wasn't by choice! After departing Burbank on rwy 8, I was told to maintain a SE direction by Tower and then handed off to SoCal. Well, like an idiot, I was waiting for a right turn towards Santa Monica (since I had specified the SFRA Bravo transition when asking for Flight Following) or at least to be told to "resume own nav and VFR rules" and I could have gotten there myself. Well, either I missed it or it never came, so I just carried on SE like a remedial zombie on downers. I knew that I was heading for the Bravo, as I was at 2500ft. By the time I asked for the turn it was too late. So there I am, panicking with the chart and imagining all the 747's and A380's zooming into LAX just above me. The controller helped me to recover with a couple of generous vectors towards KCPM, but I still managed to clip the edge of the Bravo.

Thanks to the "Analyze your flight option on MyFlightRoute, I was able to see exactly where I went wrong.

...and there it is! I was somewhere between 2500ft and 2000ft at the time that I clipped the SE corner of the 20|100 Bravo shelf. Doh!

This post could quite easily get moved to the "Never again on PE - share your mistakes" thread. But let's not worry about that for now, shall we...

Hey Cyrus,

I believe I was the controller last night who worked you out of BUR. I didn't know you wanted to go southwest-bound, either because that portion of your request was blocked by another transmission, or because I failed to make the connection that the route you wanted to take would require a southwest departure.

As a catch-all, if I advise a pilot to "Proceed on course," I always throw in the direction I expect him or her to go: "Proceed on course southeast-bound." This was all based on CPM's position relative to BUR. Since I didn't know you wanted the SFRA transition, I didn't believe it was necessary to get you flying southwest-bound. The key here is that I told you to proceed on course, not to fly a particular heading. If your on-course heading is actually SW-bound, and I said "Proceed on course SE-bound," that indicates I believe your on-course heading is, in fact, SE-bound. If I assign you a heading, that means I have some sort of operational requirement to do so, and in almost every case either myself or the departure controller would advise you when you could resume own navigation.

The easiest way to correct the unexpected "reroute," if you will, would have been to request a southwest departure after I gave you the instructions to proceed southeast-bound. Alternatively, you could have also requested this with the SOCAL Approach controller immediately. If you check in with SOCAL and advise them that you're "on course southeast-bound" -- and I don't know if that's what happened or not -- the SOCAL controller will assume you wanted to go southeast as well -- "on course."

Hope that all makes sense! The above is a very fine point in the communication strategy in "Proceed on course" instructions, but the bottom line is: If you don't like what we're giving you, definitely say something and let us know. As far as we're concerned, you're on course, and we've done all we needed to do.

Harold, thanks so much for taking the time with your note! That's all very good information for me.

I'm just curious now: Since I had told BUR CLD that I was intending to transition the Bravo using SFRA, does that kind of information *NOT* get passed on to subsequent controllers' strips? Or it *may* do... but we shouldn't rely on it?

I probably have an unrealistic expectation of what's on the VFR (w/FF) strip vs. the IFR strip.

Cheers,
Cyrus