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Was hoping you guys could clear up a few questions about Charlie and Delta transitions and required radio communications.

I know for Class Bravo, you have to be explicitly cleared into the airspace, that's pretty straight forward. For Class Charlie and Delta you have to establish "two-way radio communication" with ATC. If I've requested Flight Following earlier in the flight from a different controller (say LA Center), does that already qualify as "two-way radio communication"? Or do I have to ask for a frequency change (assuming it hasn't already been provided), and talk to the specific Approach or Tower controller? Obviously if I was landing at the airport, I'd terminate Flight Following and change frequencies, but what if I'm just transiting the airspace and wish to maintain radar services?

Perk wrote:Was hoping you guys could clear up a few questions about Charlie and Delta transitions and required radio communications.

I know for Class Bravo, you have to be explicitly cleared into the airspace, that's pretty straight forward. For Class Charlie and Delta you have to establish "two-way radio communication" with ATC. If I've requested Flight Following earlier in the flight from a different controller (say LA Center), does that already qualify as "two-way radio communication"? Or do I have to ask for a frequency change (assuming it hasn't already been provided), and talk to the specific Approach or Tower controller? Obviously if I was landing at the airport, I'd terminate Flight Following and change frequencies, but what if I'm just transiting the airspace and wish to maintain radar services?

A short while ago, I polled a similar question as this to my fellow controllers and pilots and it was interesting to see the variety of answers that were given. To specifically answer your question, if you have established two way radio communication by receiving radar services from another radar controller, and are handed off to the controlling agency of the airspace in which you are flying, then behind the scenes ATC will coordinate amongst themselves any applicable requirements or stipulations for your entry or passage through the airspace.

For example, if you are flying to BUR and are receiving flight following from LA Center and are handed off to SoCal Approach, you will have met the requirements to enter the Class C airspace.

Here's another example: Let's say you're flying into SMO receiving flight following from SoCal Approach. Assuming that your radar services are not terminated, when you are told to contact SMO local, you can enter the Class D airspace knowing that, again behind the scenes, there was prior coordination amongst the ATC.

The last example, however, was the situation around which I had asked my question. Interestingly, many pilots argued that SMO would be the authority and controlling agency for what constitutes as two way radio communication and for that reason, unless you specficially speak with SMO, you should not enter the airspace. And then on the opposite side of that argument, controllers argue that since radar services were not terminated, and coordination will most often happen behind the scenes, you are perfectly fine entering the airspace before actually speaking with SMO.

Eventually, the bottom line to the question was this: ATC should hand you off or terminate your services far enough in advance to prevent you from entering the airspace without communication. In the event that you feel that you are getting into the uncomfortable no-man's land, then you as PIC can always request a frequency change. Think of it as CYB - cover your butt!

Sorry if I raised more questions, but even amongst seasoned instructors (both ATC and pilots) there seems to be some ambiguity regarding this subject. Hopefully you will find some information in this post that will help you to better understand flying in the system.

The FAA has delegated the responsibility in this regard to the approach controller from whom you're receiving flight following. From the FAA's ATC Handbook:

FAA Order 7110.65U wrote:2-1-16. SURFACE AREAS

a. Coordinate with the appropriate nonapproach control tower on an individual aircraft basis before issuing a clearance which would require flight within a surface area for which the tower has responsibility unless otherwise specified in a letter of agreement.

REFERENCE-
FAAO JO 7210.3, Para 4-3-1, Letters of Agreement.
14 CFR Section 91.127, Operating on or in the Vicinity of an Airport in Class E Airspace.
P/CG Term- Surface Area.

b. Coordinate with the appropriate control tower for transit authorization when you are providing radar traffic advisory service to an aircraft that will enter another facility's airspace.

NOTE-
The pilot is not expected to obtain his/her own authorization through each area when in contact with a radar facility.

c. Transfer communications to the appropriate facility, if required, prior to operation within a surface area for which the tower has responsibility.

REFERENCE-
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 2-1-17, Radio Communications Transfer.
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 3-1-11, Surface Area Restrictions.
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 7-6-1, Application.
14 CFR Section 91.129, Operations in Class D Airspace.

Anthony Santanastaso wrote:Here's another example: Let's say you're flying into SMO receiving flight following from SoCal Approach. Assuming that your radar services are not terminated, when you are told to contact SMO local, you can enter the Class D airspace knowing that, again behind the scenes, there was prior coordination amongst the ATC.

I disagree. Radar services are automatically terminated in this instance, even if the controller does not say so. In either case, though, the status of radar service does not alleviate the pilot from his or her requirement to establish two-way radio communication with the tower.

The controller is responsible for transferring the aircraft to the tower prior to the Class D boundary. Part 91, however, requires that pilots themselves establish the two-way comms required to enter the Class D. Very little, if any coordination will happen between SOCAL and SMO Tower for the average VFR flight following aircraft. A pilot could not use the excuse that he was receiving flight following from SOCAL as an excuse for entering the SMO Class D without establishing two-way communication from SMO.

FAA Order 7110.65U wrote:5-1-13. RADAR SERVICE TERMINATION
...
b. Radar service is automatically terminated and the aircraft needs not be advised of termination when:
...
4. TERMINAL. An arriving VFR aircraft receiving radar service to a tower-controlled airport within Class B airspace, Class C airspace, TRSA, or where basic radar service is provided has landed, or to all other airports, is instructed to change to tower or advisory frequency.

And, Harold proves my point. This is exactly the argument that was created in the question that I asked controllers and pilots alike. There was significant debate amongst the two which leads me to believe that neither side actually knows what the answer is.

For the record I agree as a pilot with Harold. But, ATC, I would always terminate you or let you know that I had coordinated your entry into the next airspace. Either way I would make sure to give you the frequency change far enough outside the airspace that this would never become an issue.

Thanks for the answers guys, sorry about the can of worms! Sounds like from a pilot's perspective it boils down to: "You'll most likely be handed off, but if not, call and ask for a frequency change well before busting the airspace"...