PilotEdge Forums

Today, at about 2300Z I did go for the I-02 checkride.

I failed shortly after departure, since I did not comply with an altitude restriction.
I cannot remember that an altitude restriction was part of the clearance I got from Delivery, at least such a restriction was not in my readback, which was confirmed correct.
Question: Did I just miss something in the clearance, or is there an implicit restriction when departing SNA on an IFR flight?


However, I continued on my IFR flight. At about OCN, I got an outbound radial (100) and was to expect a visual Approach for 24, cause I did not request the ILS 24.
Question: When do I have to make that request? When filing the flight plan, when contacting delivery or when handed off to the Approach Controller?

Friedhelm, Germany

Your IFR clearance was to "fly heading 175, vectors V23, OCN, direct." Recording here: http://assets.pilotedge.net/recordings/ ... _17510.mp3 at 3mins 51secs.

You read it back as "Victor 22, Oceanside, direct." It appears that the controller didn't catch the incorrect/incomplete read back. The I-2 fail is at the 11 minute mark. It's not related to your altitude at all, it's purely because you didn't fly the assigned departure heading. I understand why you were surprised by this since you were under the impression the read back was correct. Try to listen closely to the initial IFR clearance, though...it's very common to be issued a departure heading from towered airports. It's especially common to be issued a clearance that contains radar vectors to join the airway if an airway is the first element of your filed route.

The controller issued a heading in the clearance and you appear to have missed it. The controller then referenced a heading as the reason for the non-passing grade, but your forum post refers to an altitude. It seems as though you're not hearing any of the controller's references to a heading. He eventually says, "fly heading 175, as per the departure instructions." That should've been a clue that it was part of the initial clearance and should've shed light on what happened (ie, disconnect during the clearance delivery phase). I would've requested clarification at that point, stating that you had not read back a departure heading, and yet the read back was correct (in your defense).

Regarding the approach at Palomar, per the Taking the Tests document (http://training.pilotedge.net/page/takingTests), the controller is going to handle you just like any normal flight. If visual approaches are in use at the airport at the time, but the rating requires that you fly the ILS RWY 24, then you need to request that approach with the approach controller who handles that sector. Per the AIM, if you wish to fly an approach other than the one that's currently in use, you should request that with the controller as soon as possible upon learning that you have been assigned a different approach.

The fact that you end up needing to request a specific approach is a completely intentional characteristic of the ratings. That's an important skill that we are trying to promote as part of the ratings. As the Taking the Tests document says, you should treat ATC and the examiner as two different people. I apologize for the misunderstanding during the clearance delivery phase, that was what planted the seed.

Thanks so much for that thorough feedback.
I flew that route offline several times to get used to what I have to expect on the real checkride, and I watched the video.
I always departed on heading 175 at KSNA on those rehearsels, and I even wondered why there was no heading given on my departure clearance. For some reason, I just missed it.
My stress Level raises when I'm involved in active ATC comms; maybe this caused me to miss parts of the clearance. Once I failed, I felt a kind of relief and, except for the ILS 24 request which I assumed to be cleared for, communication was not that factor any more.

I will retry that checkride again tonight (2300Z).

Again, thanks for that feedback.

Friedhelm, Germany

Hi, I recommend you practice online... No point in flying offline - offline you're missing the ATC interaction. You said yourself your stress level increases with ATC - face your fears muwahaha!

Writing this in order to learn in the community, not criticize or be an 'armchair pilot'...

Listening to the recording, it sounds like the pilot started to say heading during the readback and then stopped.

My takeaway (learning from everyone all of the time) is that I need to write down all clearances and compare to my filing, making sure to readback or ask questions when I can. In the realism category, if I was sitting on the ground at busy KSNA and wasn't 110% sure of what I was doing, I would be nervous and still wouldn't move before I was sure. I sometimes get in a hurry and take for granted that I'm in the sim and not in an actual aircraft.

Side note: how much of the single controller voice interactions play a role in this? There's a lot of voice traffic that the controller is tracking that we never hear and you can sometimes pick that up when the controller rushes statements. Also, the controller specifically called out that the turn to the heading should have been "no higher that about 500' or 600' AGL".