PilotEdge Forums

All:

I'm looking for some advice. Most comments could be automatically generated with "buy a new PC/graphics card" but let's try to pretend and understand that my money is going to $100/hour aircraft rentals for my PPL training.

I have FSX today. Recently bought the Steam edition for $5 and it's running slightly better than before. I have purchase Prepar3d (2.4 academic) and tried that with mixed results. I've run the demo of X-plane and it seems to be only slightly better on my hardware.

Add ons:
FTX Global
FTX Vector
A2A Cessna 182
A2A Cherokee 180

Dell Dimension 960
Core2 Quad 2.67GHz
8GB RAM
Dual 160GB drives RAID 0 <- everything installed here
32GB Cheapie SSD as a ReadyBoost drive
Nvidia GT640 1GB GDDR3 (does remarkably well, low power, low profile)
Windows 7 Professional 64bit
23" Dell monitor of average quality (single screen setup only)

Saitek:
Yoke with Throttle Quadrant
Cessna trim wheel
Rudder pedals
(1) NAV/COM radio
Dedicated powered USB hub

Current performance:
At default KSNA with the A2A Cherokee in FSX - 25-30FPS, 20FPS in P3D

Experience:
Totally usable as a training platform.

Why switch?

I watch a Rob Ainscough video and my wallet and I weep together. Also, watched Keith in the JS32 for the I-5 video and thought "he's having a blast even though it doesn't look pretty outside".

Thoughts?

For me X-Plane became a great tool once I decided I was not playing a video game and cared more about performance of the plane than how pretty the cars and clouds are. Great to have but not needed.

Turn down the rendering settings to basics and then turn up one at a time. Forget HDR with 1GB of VRAM. I have a 1 GB Video card running in a Mac Book Pro (what I have and can afford for that at this moment) works great for PilotEdge and what I need it for,,,proficiency between real world flying.

Once I got over shadows and water reflections and just set rendering where the plane flew well things got a lot more fun.

This is where I got most of the information on how rendering works in X-Plane. You will get a lot of "advice" but this is what made it all come together for me on how it works.
http://www.x-plane.com/?article=configu ... ng-options

stevekirks wrote:Most comments could be automatically generated with "buy a new PC/graphics card" but let's try to pretend and understand that my money is going to $100/hour aircraft rentals for my PPL training.
Current performance:
At default KSNA with the A2A Cherokee in FSX - 25-30FPS, 20FPS in P3D

Experience:
Totally usable as a training platform.

<speaking in low soft voice that a father figure would use>
IMO the most direct answer to your question is contained within your own post. Consider that what you have is working AND the $$ have already been spent.

Whereas switching the X-plane involves spending even more $$.

Disclaimer. I started using FSX but switched to X-plane. I now fly almost totally using X-Plane. As much as I might be tempted to try and pitch X-plane, the adult in me can't do it.

Every thing that follows is IMO:

Frame rates in the 20-25 FPS range is flyable. I flew all over the world on Vatsim using FSX getting 20 FPS.

X-plane runs better on your hardware because X-plane makes better use of the Quad core.

The Nvidia GT640 graphics card is virtually the same card that I have now. I'm getting 40-60 FPS under X-plane.

In your set up, the weakest link is the Mother Board. So if you are insisting on doing an update, that is were the $$ should be spent.

If wanting some thinking outside of the box. Buy the cheapest Haswell mother board available ($50) and the mid-level Pentium Haswell CPU ($65). Add some cheap memory ($45). Reuse the GT640 that you have. Run X-plane under Linux. This is not an option for the average person.

Another option is to run the X-Plane/Linux combination on the hardware that you have. However I would guess that the PC has other uses so this isn't a great option.

wmburns wrote:<speaking in low soft voice that a father figure would use>
IMO the most direct answer to your question is contained within your own post. Consider that what you have is working AND the $$ have already been spent.

Whereas switching the X-plane involves spending even more $$.

Disclaimer. I started using FSX but switched to X-plane. I now fly almost totally using X-Plane. As much as I might be tempted to try and pitch X-plane, the adult in me can't do it.

Every thing that follows is IMO:

Frame rates in the 20-25 FPS range is flyable. I flew all over the world on Vatsim using FSX getting 20 FPS.

X-plane runs better on your hardware because X-plane makes better use of the Quad core.

The Nvidia GT640 graphics card is virtually the same card that I have now. I'm getting 40-60 FPS under X-plane.

In your set up, the weakest link is the Mother Board. So if you are insisting on doing an update, that is were the $$ should be spent.

If wanting some thinking outside of the box. Buy the cheapest Haswell mother board available ($50) and the mid-level Pentium Haswell CPU ($65). Add some cheap memory ($45). Reuse the GT640 that you have. Run X-plane under Linux. This is not an option for the average person.

Another option is to run the X-Plane/Linux combination on the hardware that you have. However I would guess that the PC has other uses so this isn't a great option.

I hear you. I have a Core2 Duo box that I did an X-Plane/Linux trial on and it wasn't bad. 20 FPS on a GeForce 210 card and 6GB of RAM and Ubuntu.

The box I mention above is a dedicated FS box, but the motherboard idea might be good. Take some parts, move some things around and leave FSX for "fun" and X-Plane for "home cockpit". I might have enough pieces to do that over time. The one thing that lures me to X-plane is the fact that will will run better and faster and that means less crashy BS.

Anyone have ideas about the Saitek gear on X-Plane?

Also, not opposed to dual/triple installs since all my current SW is dual licensed for FSX/P3D.

I suspect the problem with your previous Linux test was your graphics card. Just not enough card. I suspect that the results will be night/day different with the later and more powerful graphics card.

I run X-plane with the Saitek yoke, dual throttles, rudder pedals, and Saitek radio panel. Love it. Stable under windows and Linux <knock wood>

Under X-plane the Saitek radio panel will need the Xsaitekpanels plugin.

Be careful with super advanced add on planes. The Saitek panels don't always play nice (think JS31 for starters). Do your home work.

I can tell you that it works great with the Carenado Baron that I own.

Update:

Installed the trial version on my main PC under Windows 7 and it works fantastic until HDR is enabled. With it disabled, it runs great. Saitek basics worked fine with no extra work. Trim wheel and radio were MIA but I expected that. I'm thinking about buying X-Plane and a single engine add-on GA plane and go from there. The include C172 isn't bad but the cockpit viewpoint is certainly different than FSX. Does it get better with the commercial planes?

Update #2:

Bought X-Plane via Steam since it was 50% off and I'm not tied to Steam for any add-on installations. At $30 it seemed like a low risk deal. Now to decide if I make the plunge to Linux or stay with Windows 7. The demo seemed to run fine for me on Windows so I'd be inclined to stay there at this point.

You'll have far less frustration on Windows and more support, too. I see way too many support issues in the forums from Linux users as compared to Windows or Mac. Unless you're a wiz at Linux, stay with Windows.

Update #3:

Have X-Plane installed via Steam and it was working great. I then installed the HD Mesh and it's dragging the system down. With X-Plane it's pretty clear to figure out where this is coming from - the hi-res texture are exceeding the available video card memory, so an upgrade would be in order. In the meantime, I'll stick with FSX while I save the monies for upgrades. PC processor load is really small and memory is not an issue either.

Overall, I would recommend X-Plane even without the additional textures.

Questions:

* Do navaids and frequencies get updated similar to FSX (third party tools or AFCADS)?
* What's a good GA payware plane to pick up for IFR training? The Baron is a little hard for me to navigate the screen with my setup.

Update #4:

Messed around with texture settings and "autogen" last night. I wa able to reduce to "very high" for textures and move traffic and other 'static' items up pretty high and kept memory usage on the video card to under 1GB of VRAM. The whole time sim behavior was very smooth.

Randoms:

* With traffic turned up to 'Chicago' it's simply beautiful at night. I was flying from KSNA to KCNO this morning VFR and was mesmerized by commuters going to work early in the X-Plane morning.

* Airport lighting seems pretty realistic

* The view out of the default Cessna is pretty restrictive, making the call to midfield and base a little difficult.

* I added the drivers for the Saitek radio panel and added switch settings on the throttle quadrant for lights and battery. Made a big difference in usability.

* RAM usage is hovering at 1.8GB to 2.0GB with processor usage staying at 33% on average. Simply amazing. I now understand why so many people make the switch to X-Plane.

I'll wrap up my part of this thread with this:

* X-Plane for instrument practice
* FSX with A2A aircraft for VFR and my initial private pilot license practice. It's hard to beat the walkaround and maintenance items to keep my head in the practice of checking the plane.
* Will slowly buy new parts as time passes to upgrade the graphics card and maybe RAM.

Other things:

I got an inexpensive kneeboard as a Christmas gift and I've started the process of stacking my docs on the board as if I was in the actual plane--no cheating and using the desk.

I'm starting the process of briefing the flight (outloud to myself) and my wife thinks I'm little nuts.

My controller at KSNA last night was great (the only female voice I've heard) so I wanted to say thanks. I had put notes in my flight plan to let them know that I was new to X-Plane and they were patient and friendly. I wish there was a way to do controller feedback (press this button to "like" your controller!) so Keith knew who is being awesome. I guess this works too.

Thanks PilotEdge community for the advice and help.