PilotEdge Forums

Pilots, those who have already violated the ENTIRETY of class C from a Satellite Field, and those who soon will, I salute you:

This was a fun flight! I like going to what I imagine to be a desert hideout - a little strip surrounded by mountains. I was tempted to cue up the Julie Andrews songs coming over the ridge.

Situation: Filed the Peble4 out of KSAN. Pretty straightforward. i kinda messed up crossing the OCN radial to turn to 315 but I was close enough and nobody noticed. Oh yes, NOW I remember something noteworthy! the SID clearance!
http://peaware.pilotedge.net/flight.cfm?id=87284

Lessons Learned:
Say my name!: Ok so If I had more energy I would post a link to Walter White here because that's how I felt talking to the Clearance Delivery during readback. I had FILED at 14000 as is wise since the SID requires it. And I was GIVEN 14000. There are NO intermediate altitudes on the SID. So i read back "Cleared as FILED (I always try to say this with mock astonishment that there were no changes), climb and maintain 14 thousand, 119.6, 3463"...Clearance Delivery seemed kinda grumpy and made say "Climb Via SID! (Say my name!) except Maintain 14000" which really threw me off since, duh, that's what I said and the except part is weird (I thought) but he indicated I HAD to say except VIA SID. Or else. And the reason why is because they HAVE to get you to 14 000 at MELDY and not for instance at PEBLE. It all seemed very redundant to me, but I learned something. Thanks Mr. White!
Choices: Ok so uneventful flight. Super ATC gave me a shortcut. I had filed to LOPES planning on the NW entry between the mountains to KTSP. Another option is the NE Entry over the desert north of Lake Hughes (LHS). Actually, there is no doubt that the Lake Hughes --> Mojave --> Follow the highway route in is FAR superior. Just do that.

I listened to the tapes for your clearance and you might want to modify your description on the controller and your read back. The convention for clearance read back has always been to say everything the same. I've been known to shortcut the departure frequency or squawk code, but PilotEdge is like school where all of the rules are more strictly enforced.

My opinion.

1) If a SID contains restrictions or a top altitude (ie, an initial altitude to maintain), ATC will issue "climb via SID". If the SID contains altitude restrictions but no top altitude, OR it contains a top altitude and ATC wants to override the top altitude, they will use "climb via SID, except maintain."

2) If a pilot doesn't read back the 'climb via' portion, then ATC will restate it until the pilot does repeat it.

Other than this case, It's ok to read back a squawk code only (in fact at some places, it's in the ATIS to do exactly that to relieve congestion on the clearance frequency), however, if ATC issues 'climb via SID', that must be read back.

The reason for this phraseology is to alert pilots to the presence of altitude restrictions on the SID or a top altitude.

I had the same SID and altitude instructions as Todd. I was flying the Baron (Carenado's), which I have not flown much in X-Plane, and I messed up my braking while taxiing to the runway. Got myself sorted, and flew the SID pretty much OK. However, I had set myself a climb rate in the A/P, which the Baron could not maintain above around 10,000', so I found myself rescuing the plane from an unusual attitude as the A/P disconnected itself! I reduced the VS, but it didn't like it again, so I finally got it smoothly going up at a more sedate pace, which the A/P was happy with. The SID actually gives one plenty of time to get to 14000', and I was too aggressive (flying too late at night!). Smooth sailing to LHS, and then on to KTSP, but I was still at 14000' when LA Center handed me over to Joshua Approach, by which time I had a very few miles to run. I was asked to descend to 8000', and asked whether I had the airport in sight at my 12 o'clock and a few miles. Well, of course I did. So, I found myself trying to lose a lot of altitude and speed, as I had been going at a ground speed of around 200KTS. At that point, radar service was terminated, and I had to squawk VFR, and try and get myself down, while I had already shot over the top of the field. Actually, it's a left pattern for 29, but I was rapidly descending into the surrounding high ground. I whizzed around for a bit to sort things out. I rescued the situation, got myself slowed up and abandoned the downwind join (well, I had been cleared for the visual approach!), and went for a sort of straight in, which I announced on the CTAF. I made an excellent landing, so neither I nor the Baron were bent in any way. I'm going back to one of my more regular steeds for the next leg.

As an afterthought, I should have planned my descent, and asked for "lower" , rather than wait for ATC to sort me out..........