PilotEdge Forums

Howdy all,

I'm trying really hard to get things right and as a result, every time I go up my heart pounds so hard it feels like it will pop right out of my chest. I've been getting better with the help of my VA but every time I go up is emotionally draining.

That said, I was practicing pattern work for my V-1 earlier this week. There was a new jargon that took a moment to sink into my thick skull but the controller was super patient with me and really nice. I love the controllers on PE.

Once I was in the air my heart was pumping full strength. I knew what to do but I was already off to a rough start so the pressure was on. To make matters worse, the controller was really busy this evening. On my second pass, I was ready to report midfield but I couldn't find an opening to let the tower know. I tried to squeeze it in a couple times where I thought I had an opening but somehow I was stepping on the controller and didn't know it. It wasn't till I reviewed the radio archive that I found that out. I had reached base and still didn't have my landing clearance and was panicking so I stayed on the downwind not knowing what to do.

I finally decided to turn to base anyway and tried one last time. The controller was nice and gave me clearance and was understanding when I explained why I was 3 miles out on approach. I was so frazzled by that point I asked to taxi to ramp once I was clear the runway to shutdown and watched my bud finish his last loop.

I assume I should have turned to base anyway when I was at the right spot and just kept trying to report. But what if I made it around to final and still hadn't gotten through. What to do then? What do you do when you're in a pattern and can't get a word in? It's not like approaching airspace where you can just hold until you got clearance is it?

The controller was really nice but this has left me a little more nervous than when I started.

I had exactly the same questions.

First, don't do the exams until you're ready. Fly as many days as required to become comfortable. I don't understand why people rush their rating.
Second, we agreed recently that you should NOT turn base without approval of ATC. There might be 747 landing. So you just keep patiently on downwind leg until you get through. And then you say for example "JW twr, LYPAR, about to turn base" .

Keep practicing, do the same thing, make notes of your mistakes. Every flight will be different - there will be other traffic in airport, etc. Don't rush and soon you'll be ace

I haven't listened to the recording, but off the top of my head, keep the calls really brief, such as, "N3AB, midfield." That is shorter than what ATC is going to say to you, so even if you partially block them, you're not going to completely cut them off. Compare that with, "John Wayne Tower, N123AB is midfield left downwind, touch and go."

In other words, if you're not going it already, adjust your speech patterns based on the radio congestion. You didn't do anything wrong, and staying on the downwind without turning base was a judgement call. I might have done the same under the circumstance. However, if you're making calls and not getting a response, then I would suspect a block...particularly if your calls were about the same length as an ATC landing clearance (ie, the 'perfect' block where you both start and stop at exactly at the same time.)

The biggest learning, though, should be to realize that this stuff CAN happen. I'm sure ATC was a little surprised, maybe even frustrated (he/she wouldn't have realized the block was occurring and therefore wondered why you flew a 3 mile pattern), but you should realize that the above notwithstanding, there wasn't too much you could do you and made a reasonable choice to continue the downwind. I would be very shy about turning base at a towered airport without either having a landing clearance, or some kind of sequence instruction from the tower. So, I say good call on extending, but perhaps adjust your radio calls (again, I haven't listened, this is just a guess) to mitigate all but any chance of a radio block.

You should walk away saying, "ATC might have sounded annoyed, but I worked with the info I had and got it down safely after making a judgement call," rather than being frazzled. You did ok!

Thanks guys. Ya this wasn't an actual V-1 but practice for it. I intend to get a little more comfortable with it before I try for real.

It's reassuring to hear that it may have been the right call. And the controller was very polite about it. It wasn't so much them bringing attention to it that frazzled me as much as all the little things going wrong on my first attempt at a pattern.

I did the "first flight" over the weekend and my first attempt at that one had one glaring mistake. I was late in my call on approach. ATC politely asked me to call before entering class D next time but otherwise all went well. Ran it a second time later that day and it went very well with no glaring mistakes. Just a little fumbling over words.

I'm really starting to see the difference between this and the other online networks. I feel like I'm really learning and not just faking it until someone lets me know I've had it wrong all this time. Vatsim and IVAO has nice controllers but they aren't always "helpful". Sometimes they let you get away with things that makes for bad habits later on.

As a sim only pilot (wish I could afford RL training) I have to learn a lot of these things the hard way. I read as much as I can, watch videos on the topic, and ask questions but at the end of the day I don't get an instructor coming up with me to show me what I'm doing right and wrong. PE is the next best thing to the real thing.

Bidimus, hang in there for another week or two and we'll have someone offering up one on one coaching from the comfort of your own home, too.

Oh excellent! Interest perked. I'll keep my eyes open.

I happen to know that this night was a bit of a crazy night. I think 7-8 aircraft loaded up at KSNA within 5 minutes of each other and 2 other aircraft loaded up simultaneously at 2 different airports with IFR requests.

You did fine and honestly, could have turned your base sooner than you did even though you couldn't report as requested. When you're in the pattern, you are VFR. Keep you head on a swivel looking for traffic, always. It's your responsibility to make sure you have the spacing you need. ATC will do their best to help with that but unless you hear (example only) "extend downwind" or other instruction, turns are up to you. That night was atypical as everybody was going at once and it was hard to get calls in.

I teach my students to never assume the responsibility to extend a downwind unless specifically authorized by the tower. In the worst-case scenario, you lose the engine on the uncommanded extended downwind and now may no longer have a safe place to land. When there is no reason for you to be on an extended downwind, fly the pattern normally.

Supporting a decision to extend a downwind by saying "Tower never said anything" implies that a landing clearance is a clearance to turn base, which it is not. A landing clearance is only required before you land on the runway.

14 CFR Part 91.129 (i) wrote:(i) Takeoff, landing, taxi clearance. No person may, at any airport with an operating control tower, operate an aircraft on a runway or taxiway, or take off or land an aircraft, unless an appropriate clearance is received from ATC.

Aeronautical Information Manual wrote:A clearance to land means that appropriate separation on the landing runway will be ensured.

There exists no prohibition on turning base while in the traffic pattern until a landing clearance is received. The only case where you would make a downwind extension without explicit tower instruction to do so is when complying with a previous instruction that inherently requires it, such as "Follow a Cessna on a 2 mile final."

Awesome... Thanks for all the feedback all... Hindsight being 20/20, you're right Marcus, it was a crazy night. Tonight wasn't nearly as crazy. I went up today to fly patterns and things went so well that I decided to try for it. I took the V-1 and passed. I'm over the moon. Took what I learned, hit all my cues, provided all the necessary information, even clarified a detail correctly and briefly. I was nervous as all getup but it went very well. I'll be flying more patterns as I think it's great practice but now it will be with a new confidence.

There is still a long ways to go but then a pilot is always learning right?

I'm totally with Harold (yes, really!) on this one. You should fly a normal pattern, even if you can't get a word in. If local is busy, their brain will have an easier time remembering where you should be based on timing of a normal pattern. Obviously if there's an airplane in the way (like someone at your 1 o'clock on final), I wouldn't do it, but other than that you shouldn't extend downwind on your own. If you truly can't reach anyone just fly a known traffic pattern (all the typical legs) and go around on short final).

In real life id suggest a comms failure and consider the light gun (tower shoots you with signals from a hand held lamp with alternating colors denoting certain things to do)