PilotEdge Forums

To start, I was inspired to get back into flight sims from watching the "On Pilot Edge with Dad" video Chris aka helipilot made. My Dad loves aviation and this winter was really getting to him. I was looking for a way to spend more time with him doing something we both love. Up until now I have been going over to his place but would like to soon replicate the shared cockpit and PE just as Chris had done.

Chris, if you read this...huge thanks, it has really been a huge lift to his spirits this winter.

So to my issues and my boot from PE today...

I am now capable at navigation in general, I started about 3 months ago with xPlane and mainly stayed with hand flying by radio navigation and frankly love it. Most flights in the Carenado Cessna Station Air...great plane. That being said I am trying to get on with using ATC...I started with Vatsim but grew tired of chasing the controlled sites and frankly if you want to fly VFR your pretty much on UNICOM anyway. I started IFR and studied up on the procedures and got a few Vatsim controlled flights in with full SID and STAR routes which gave me some confidence to come over here and try...

First lesson is I need to go back and start from scratch

I flew the recommended first flight with little issue then said "Lets try an IFR KLAX to KLAS" lol

My first attempt, my XFMC, which I am using in my Carenado King Air, decided to control the plane then not then who knows...I ended up in a full left bank circle before asking ATC to give me vectors to land back at KLAX. I setup another flight and all was fine until I got the KLAS clearance to go to 19R??? I never test flew that approach yet!!! Ok no matter I said...just a simple visual approach, just fly the downwind leg to base and fly on in right...all was fine until I heard the call "turn to base when abeam of the stratosphere"??!!?? Now I never have been to Vegas so I honestly had no clue what the hell that was...my mistake was not informing ATC that I did not know, instead I flew to what I thought was an appropriate base and just as I was going to make the turn I got a very stern "what are you doing? I asked you to turn abeam of the stratosphere, You are in restricted airspace! Start your turn immediately" I did and made a horrible approach but landed and got off line quick.

Just now I got disconnected from the network while trying a very simple VFR flight from KSNA to KRAL...

I think I know why but now comes my questions...

When departure gives me the hand off to VFR do I switch off the assigned squawk and goto 1200, I did not in this last flight.

I tried to fly into KRAL but for some reason I could not see it anywhere so I asked Riverside TWR for a cancel and direction out then tried again but just as I approached the KRAL airspace I still had no visual reference of the airport and turned away...soon got the boot.

I am thinking now that I forgot to switch back to SoCal departure and was not getting any calls?

I hope my mistakes haven't caused too much grief, I am worried that I got the boot and now need to sit in the penalty box...wondering how long?

My first attempt, my XFMC, which I am using in my Carenado King Air, decided to control the plane then not then who knows...I ended up in a full left bank circle before asking ATC to give me vectors to land back at KLAX. I setup another flight and all was fine until I got the KLAS clearance to go to 19R??? I never test flew that approach yet!!! Ok no matter I said...just a simple visual approach, just fly the downwind leg to base and fly on in right...all was fine until I heard the call "turn to base when abeam of the stratosphere"??!!?? Now I never have been to Vegas so I honestly had no clue what the hell that was...my mistake was not informing ATC that I did not know, instead I flew to what I thought was an appropriate base and just as I was going to make the turn I got a very stern "what are you doing? I asked you to turn abeam of the stratosphere, You are in restricted airspace! Start your turn immediately" I did and made a horrible approach but landed and got off line quick.

based on the XFMC comment I assume you use X-plane, if that's the case unless you have special scenery you won't have the Stratosphere tower. In this case the best bet is "unable it's not in our scenery". Controllers are aware of that issue and will assign alternate instructions. In case you don't know the Stratosphere is a 1500' tall tower and is very hard to miss.

When departure gives me the hand off to VFR do I switch off the assigned squawk and goto 1200, I did not in this last flight.

Depending on the exact situation you may or may not have been told to squawk VFR, in either case this is a minor point at best.

I hope my mistakes haven't caused too much grief, I am worried that I got the boot and now need to sit in the penalty box...wondering how long?

Mistakes happen, for what it's worth no one has been removed from the network for violations today so you being disconnected was a technical issue not "the boot". As a result you aren't in any penalty box and can log on whenever you'd like.

I will recommend our pilot training program http://training.pilotedge.net to you. It will go through 14 flights to get you more comfortable with various VFR and IFR flights.

Thank you Peter...the timing was right after I turned away from the KRAL airspace so I assumed I messed up and got booted. Nice to know I didn't cause too much of an issue, Its important to get this right.

I was having real difficulty seeing the runways, just installed enhanced runways and now they pop really good, also adding the scenery for KRAL was helpful.

I just flew the same route offline and had no issues, saw the airport, entered the downwind leg just fine and had a nice landing.

I will be sure to work through the test flights however...

As for the stratosphere, I keep notes on each approach/departure and the mistakes I made, also include tendencies that I tend to repeat that I want to correct (turn to final early is one of them). I will be ready if I get a RWY 19 approach again but this time I will ask for vectors for my turn to base.

Cheers!

Ok, new questions...two mistakes on my last flight.

I missed setting my Altimeter :facepalm:

Also, after taking off from KSNA VFR North from 20L I had DEP indicate that I need to start to the assigned heading after I fly through 500AGL and not the 1000AGL I thought it was.

Where do I find pattern height information, is that standard for all VFR patterns? I assumed that it was pattern height and thought it was 1000 but after review its actually 800 for RWY 20L. I see that if I go long on the takeoff prior to turning to assigned heading I would get into the Class B from LAX but that shouldn't mater right...as I am well below the 7000-10000 block?

stealthbob wrote:I missed setting my Altimeter :facepalm:

Missing an altitude setting doesn't even move the face plant richter scale. You are going to have to do "better" to make these lists.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=838&start=230&hilit ... ur+mistake
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4984&hilit=worst+pilot

stealthbob wrote: Also, after taking off from KSNA VFR North from 20L I had DEP indicate that I need to start to the assigned heading after I fly through 500AGL and not the 1000AGL I thought it was.

An ATC departure assigned heading is not the same as flying "the pattern". The controller is expecting for you to turn to the assigned heading "as soon as practical". Since no turns are made until above 400 AGL turning at 500 AGL is about as soon as practical.

stealthbob wrote:Where do I find pattern height information, is that standard for all VFR patterns? I assumed that it was pattern height and thought it was 1000 but after review its actually 800 for RWY 20L. I see that if I go long on the takeoff prior to turning to assigned heading I would get into the Class B from LAX but that shouldn't mater right...as I am well below the 7000-10000 block?

Skyvector.com is a great place to start if looking for charts and diagrams. Skyvector.com is your friend.

http://skyvector.com/airport/SNA/John-W ... ty-Airport

The Airport Facility Directory is another great source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport/Facility_Directory
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_ ... ucts/dafd/
http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStor ... ectory.asp

I have the FAA Digital Terminal procedures d-TPP's loaded on my desktop. It's cheap ($11.95 one time) and faster than most online sources. With today's PC's the hard disk space isn't an issue. A sim pilot doesn't need totally up to date charts. The one I use all the time is dated 05/20/14. I usually get a new one every 18-24 months.
http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/2544

Thanks for all the information...

To be honest I have been scouring all over the interweebs for all kinds of info, found many sites...the best one I did find early on was is Skyvector of course.

My biggest issue is the torrent of information available and the sense of (something I heard from Chris) drinking from a fire hose lol.

The workshops are a help but hard to dedicate so much youtube time to watch them, I have completed the first one but with so much info included I could watch it 5 times and not get it all.

I understand it is a process and it will take time, that being said I feel comfortable now that I can commit to the PE sub as I am hooked!

I will be back, I am sure with more questions, maybe one day I will be able to support some newbie that come along

stealthbob, welcome to PE.

You might want to check out MyFlightRoute (sorry everyone, yet another shameless plug). It's designed to give you all of the information needed for your flight with ready access to current procedures, airport diagrams, A/FD, Skyvector, TEC routes and more. It is specifically designed to compliment PilotEdge with data for all airports within the PilotEdge operating area.

The PilotEdge training program is a fantastic resource for training materials. Working through the various "Ratings flights" is an excellent way to mange that "firehose".

Edit: Sounds like I need to make more use of MyFlightRoute! I used it for the first time this weekend, on the Poker Run, but didn't explore it in detail. I'll check it out.

Stealthbob, I'm a newb too, and I make at least a couple mistakes during every session on Pilot Edge. Don't fret! You're not the first person to miss that the terminal pattern altitude at a given field is non-standard. I recall reading people here not realizing that KSNA had a nonstandard TPA. That said, in this Sunday's "Poker Run," I was well and truly impressed that every pilot had obviously read the charts for each field, because every pilot knew which fields/runways required a right or left pattern.

I have added "brief target field" to my pre-takeoff checklist: at a minimum, I want to write down in BIG LETTERS the available (and likely) runways, the elevation, the TPA, the tower frequency (if any), and right or left pattern. I usually draw myself a little diagram of my likely approach into the traffic pattern. And yeah, skyvector is great for this. The VFR chart itself tells you much of that info, and the detail-window on the airport supplies the rest (like pattern altitude). I keep skyvector open at all times when I'm flying on PE (or flying offline, for that matter).

Don't worry about a penalty box. I'd have made that same error on that tower you mentioned. You're going to have to do something really bad, like repeatedly crash a Bravo airspace, to get yourself kicked out, I would think. We all make mistakes. Some of my recent errors:

1. Asked for permission to transition a class-Charlie when I was a mile above the airspace, without mentioning my altitude to the controller when I checked in.
2. Asked for permission to leave a class-Delta towered field's frequency when I had already left the delta, was flying VFR, and was permitted to switch on my own.
3. Stumbled over my words acknowledging instructions to enter a pattern at left base, then nervously proclaimed into the mike that I was a student pilot(this was on my first flight). Ugh; I shoulda just shut up instead of clogging radio space!
4. Routinely forget to add the name of the field at the end of a CTAF call (though the Poker Run mostly cured me of that, as it was all CTAF all the time).
5. Almost rolled off the runway after landing because I was so rattled by other errors on approach that I almost overshot my landing.
6. Wasn't sure I heard correctly a controller's altimeter statement, and didn't read it back because I was afraid of looking dumb or wasting the controller's time. THAT was maybe my dumbest mistake.

I do hope you stick with PE. The training videos are awesome; just take them in small chunks so you don't get overwhelmed. I've made it through the VFR videos, but that's as far as I've gotten; I learned a ton. As you say, it's great to fly VFR and really *fly* the plane. I fly with no GPS at all, and almost never use autopilot (which isn't installed on my Carenado Archer). I'm trying to learn to use my eyes (and VORs, NDBs and charts, of course).

Bob,

Thanks for the kind words. It's always crazy to hear people actually watch those videos.

It looks like the rest of the guy have chimed in with some pretty great advice already. The biggest piece of advice I can give you is to roll back the proverbial throttles and stick to some slower aircraft. Having an extra couple of minutes to think makes all the difference early on. The pilot training program is an absolutely fantastic resource. Just pick one trip and fly it over and over again until you understand exactly what's up, then move on to the next.

Is there any chance you're running the smart copilot addon for X-Plane? I'd be happy to take you up flying and we can talk through some of this stuff. Just shoot me a PM and let me know.

Definitely recommend taking the time to go through the workshop videos. The advantage they have over trying to get this information quickly yourself through self-study is that you have Keith as a instructor filtering and prioritizing the information. There are a lot of times in the workshops where Keith will ignore some information as just not being relevant; that's something you'd only know from experience. Whereas as someone new to all this, you might get hungup on stuff that's just not that important.

That's not to say you shouldn't self-study and read all the appropriate documentation once you have a handle on the basics, but trying to ingest all the information at once is like trying to learn General Relativity before you know F=ma, much less Special Relativity.