PilotEdge Forums

Hi Colleges

i do require some help here from experienced pilots. I am flying klas->mccrn3->hec->riivr2 arrival into klax with a boeing 732, no RNAV capabilities. Just VOR/DME. Approach tells me continue descend vía RIIVR2 arrival then cleared for ILS 24R approach.

How to i move myself from riivr2 arrival to ils24r approach?

First question:
reading ILS24R approach, it seems to me that while i am flying RIIVR2 arrival i have to intercept POMONA VOR radial 098 feeder which will deviate me to the right 278 to cross MINZA at 10000 ft for intercepting 24R approach.
is this correct?

Second question:
Assuming the above statement was right, then how do i intercept loc 108.50 at MINZA for 24R approach? it is almost 40 NM away, i can not pick up the signal that far away. To solve this, i turn left heading a bit manually over MINZA to point the aircraft straight to the airport (having a potential margin of error here) and once i pick up the signal for 108.50 by 22NM aprox i do final corrections to intercept the localizer and continue the approach properly alligned.
This looks weird to me, by putting myself into 24R approach course by "aprox calculation"
What i am missing, or misreading here, from the charts?

Hope you can help me.

NOTE: i do not have this issue when ILS25L is assigned, because i can continue approaching straight in over LAX VOR 113.6 until i do pick up 109.9 signal by 22NM away.


regards
Manuel

The last point on the RIIVR2 is RIIVR, which also happens to be an IAF for the ILS 24R. The LAX radial and the LOC course are not aligned (off by 2 degrees - the 068 intercepts the LOC at JAXEV), although in XP, the receiving distance is not an issue for me. Not sure why your not receiving. If you can't receive, its most likely an XP issue, so I would notify ATC and request a 251 heading until receiving (although this has its obvious problems, such as the descent and terrain/obstruction clearance). Maybe someone way smarter than me can chime in. POM is not involved in this procedure, since you are not on the approach from SEAVU.

Thanks Nelson for the advise on the RIIVR to JAXEV intercept, i see now it in the charts.

Glad to know you are able to intercept the localizer 108.5 (24R) and 109.9 (25L) as depicted on the charts. I am unable to pickup them unless i am 22 NM or closer from the airport. What XP version you run? 10.35 here over OSX.

I just tried also the LES SAAB 340 but having the same behavior than in the FJS 732.

Hmm, I run 10.35, though that doesn't have any affect (neither does the aircraft in question). I did purchase a single Navigraph cycle back at the I9 for the CRJ200 (not sure if that changes reception distances). If you're unable to receive, ask ATC for a vector to the final approach course, or request a different approach. They can't assign/clear you for an approach unless you can fly it as depicted (for obvious reasons).

Edit - Actually, don't quote me on ATC stuff - my extent of ATC certification is approximately zero...

I do have a yearly subscription to navigraph being up to date on the cycles. I do not know either if they have something to do on the distances. I will raise a ticket to LR explaining them i am unable to pick up those frequencies as expected and see what they have to say. thanks!

The reception distance for navaids is published in the Resources/default data/earth_nav.dat file. Here are the relevant lines for LAX:

4 33.94631400 -118.43949400 122 11170 50 262.898 IHQB KLAX 24L ILS-cat-I
4 33.94810300 -118.44091700 123 10850 50 262.890 IOSS KLAX 24R ILS-cat-III
4 33.93329900 -118.42247700 117 10990 70 262.925 ILAX KLAX 25L ILS-cat-III
4 33.93560000 -118.42168600 119 11110 50 262.935 ICFN KLAX 25R ILS-cat-I

The reception distances are all set to 50nm except for the 25L ILS, which is 70nm. I suspect that with slant range taken into account, you're at more than 50nm at RIIVR (which is 48nm from LAX). Update the file and you should be good.

You can fix DAG and PGY while yo're at it

The distances in the file correspond to typical service volumes for the various types of navaids, but many airways require you to exceed normal service volumes (and they are flight checked for it). Each VOR would have to be tweaked and resubmitted to Laminar for inclusion in a future update.

Note: Marcus made a post about this here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5215

Keith Smith wrote: I suspect that with slant range taken into account, you're at more than 50nm at RIIVR

surprisingly, 49 miles @ 10,000 feet with a touchdown elevation of 120 feet, would only yield a slant range of 49.0271 NM

unless I screwed up (Mom always told me not to do math in public)

kullery wrote:

Keith Smith wrote: I suspect that with slant range taken into account, you're at more than 50nm at RIIVR

surprisingly, 49 miles @ 10,000 feet with a touchdown elevation of 120 feet, would only yield a slant range of 49.0271 NM

unless I screwed up (Mom always told me not to do math in public)

You're right, it doesn't change it by much after all.

I did open the "earth_nav.dat" file as per Keith suggestion

KLAX -25L 109.9- and -24R 108.5- are set to 70 and 50NM respectively, BUT those frequencies are also assigned to KLAX 07R and KLAX 06L and set to 25 NM which makes sense what i am experiencing being able to pick up them only at 23NM or closer!

mmmmm, what i am missing here? It seems i am on the right freq. but for some reason i am having 25NM distance as per 07R / 06L