ATC question

[walid1111]

I listen to ATC live and a lot of times hear the controllers say something like "RNAV to XYZ (at KLAX I hear RNAV to docker(?))clear for take off RWY xyz. I have not heard this phraseology on PE.

Can someone explain what this is and why we do not use it on PE?

[stevekirks]

Typically, the tower controller is required to issue a direction of flight or instruction to a departing aircraft. In the case of an RNAV SID for an IFR aircraft, the direction of flight is to the first fix of the departure. I hear it on VATSIM but almost never here on PE. This seems likely for two reasons:

1. Not that many truly RNAV equipped aircraft are in use on the network.
2. It's not required from the sim standpoint because you're cleared to follow the departure which has the fix.

PS--Not PE staff, just a VATSIM controller with no real world knowledge.

[wmburns]

Hopefully this will answer some of your questions. Take a look at the KALX RNAV SID's and note that the first fix from Runway 25R is DOCKR. Also note on the SID there's an altitude restriction at DOCKR.

Example: FIXIT TWO Departure FIXIT2.FIXIT
https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1507/pdf/00237FIXIT.PDF

I think that it might help clear things up if the full wording of the ATC clearance was included.

I have also noted when I have listened to ATC live departure out of KLAX that they issues a ton of instructions such as cleared direct Santa Monica (SMO) and track the xxx radial outbound. Instructions almost never heard on PE.

If asking for the reason it's never heard on PE is due to the lower traffic volumes on PE. There simply isn't the volume of traffic to require it.

[HRutila]

It's only required when parallel runway departures are in use. 99% of the time the airports here do not have enough traffic to warrant that.

[Kyle.Sanders]

7110.65 5-8-2. INITIAL HEADING

a. Before departure, assign the initial heading to be flown if a departing aircraft is to be vectored immediately after takeoff.

PHRASEOLOGY-
FLY RUNWAY HEADING.
TURN LEFT/RIGHT, HEADING (degrees).

NOTE-
TERMINAL. A purpose for the heading is not necessary, since pilots operating in a radar environment associate assigned headings with vectors to their planned route of flight.

REFERENCE-
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 4-3-2, Departure Clearances.
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 5-6-3, Vectors Below Minimum Altitude.

b. When conducting simultaneous parallel runway departures utilizing RNAV SIDs, advise aircraft of the initial fix/waypoint on the RNAV route.

PHRASEOLOGY-
RNAV to (fix/waypoint), RUNWAY (number), CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF.

EXAMPLE-
"RNAV to MPASS, Runway Two-Six Left, cleared for takeoff."

NOTE-
1. TERMINAL. A purpose for an initial waypoint advisory is not necessary since pilots associate this advisory with the flight path to their planned route of flight. Pilots must immediately advise ATC if a different RNAV SID is entered in the aircraft FMS.

2. The SID transition is not restated as it is contained in the ATC clearance.

3. Aircraft cleared via RNAV SIDs designed to begin with a vector to the initial waypoint are assigned a heading before departure

REFERENCE-
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 3­9­9, Takeoff Clearance
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 4­3­2, Departure Clearances
AIM, Para 5-2-7. Departure Control

[Nelson L.]

Cue the person organizing a parallel runway departure at LAX using RNAV SIDs' You guys have awakened the hornet's nest