PilotEdge Forums

Let me start off by stating for the record that I hate to spend too much for PC parts (I have been called cheap). I don't mind spending a lot of $$'s on my sim rig but I want to feel like that I'm getting the most value for the money spent. My day job is networking so I like to think that I'm somewhat "in the know". The down side of how I buy PC components is that my systems tend to be older with little future growth head room. This creates a situation where any new requirements often causes a cascade of upgrades resulting in a whole new build.

In June of 2013 for the first time ever I built a NEW PC based upon the very recently released Haswell CPU. ASUS Z87 mother board combined with a GTX640 video card. Life was good until after an display upgrade. My research indicated the GTX640 was no longer up to the task. Upgrade to a GTX750Ti resulted in frame rates over 100 FPS! Hands down the most powerful sim PC I have ever owned!

Over time additional airplanes, increased rending options, and X-Plane updates has seen the frame rate drop to 25-30 FPS. For the most part is a playable frame rate. My problem is I would like to increase the frontal view area by adding a 2nd display. With the GTX750Ti maxed out, the 2nd display isn't going to happen without upgrades.

As a cost saving measure my first attempt to upgrade was to a GTX960 which really didn't improve my sim experience.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5733

Because of time constraints (30 day return period) I had to return the GTX960 before really finding out why a video card that on paper is 60% more powerful was soooo much worse in practice. I now believe the problem was a combination of CPU load and marginal VRAM. A recent CPU upgrade from a 3.0 GHz to 3.5 overclocked CPU has shown an improvement in frame rates on the original GTX750Ti (30-35 FPS).

However, I'm not positive there aren't other more complex issues going on with my sim. Frankly I don't really want to step up to a graphics card that costs more than the PC that's running it unless there isn't any other way.

Thank-you for sticking with me for this long. Will get to the point.

What I'm looking for is someone out there with a GTX970 card that is looking to upgrade (or has upgraded) to a stronger graphics card. If there is anyone out there perhaps looking for a way to get some of their $$'s out of an extra graphics card then maybe we can help each other.

Disclaimer. Often selling/buying used PC gear is a hard lesson in "Moore's law". IE, how steep the depreciation curve really is. Here's a sample of the Newegg prices to compare. Current new 4GB GTX970 price $270.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... ageSize=30

To the mod:. I have seen some small amount of buying/selling going on via the PE forums. However, I understand if this is not a suitable venue for this activity. If it's not OK, please feel free to delete this post.

PM Sent.

John

I might be in for someone's leftovers in this game of thrones. I'm running at GT640 card now, looking for something with 2GB of VRAM and a little more power. If someone ends up with an extra that you think would improve my XP life, PM me and I'll throw some money in the pot too.

Steve

Wow, this could work out real well. I most certainly noticed an improvement in my sim performance going from a GTX640 to the GTX750Ti. I don't think I would be upgrading if not for a plan to add more frontal screen area.

This is similar to my current video card. I still have the original box. The difference is my version has two DVI ports and does not have a VGA port. If I can get an upgraded video card, I'm certain we can reach an agreement on a fair price.

http://www.frys.com/product/8021544?sit ... IN_RSLT_PG

I'm sure you understand that I have to wait until the replacement is in hand before proceeding.

wmburns wrote:Wow, this could work out real well. I most certainly noticed an improvement in my sim performance going from a GTX640 to the GTX750Ti. I don't think I would be upgrading if not for a plan to add more frontal screen area.

This is similar to my current video card. I still have the original box. The difference is my version has two DVI ports and does not have a VGA port. If I can get an upgraded video card, I'm certain we can reach an agreement on a fair price.

http://www.frys.com/product/8021544?sit ... IN_RSLT_PG

I'm sure you understand that I have to wait until the replacement is in hand before proceeding.

That would be good. Any idea the power requirements? I'm in no hurry and I'm sure the pricing will work out. I use DVI for monitors now, and have a backup that's HDMI capable.

Through a series of upgrades and new system builds I have ended up with an extra Intel 1150 desktop CPU. I'm looking to sell one of the units:

Intel Core i5-4430 Haswell Quad-Core 3.0 GHz LGA 1150 84W Current=$184
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819116895

Intel Core i3-4170 3M Haswell Dual-Core 3.7 GHz LGA 1150 Current=$124
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819117543

I'm looking to get $140 for the i5-4430 or $110 for the i3-4170. I'll pick up USA48 ground shipping from 77459. Drop me a PM if interested.

To those out there using an older LGA775, core two duo gen 1 / gen2 system you would be surprised just how much processing power is available for the money in the Haswell line. Combine this CPU with a cheap LGA1150 mother board (less than $75) and it's possible to build a very powerful system for less than $200. Don't think for a minute that an expensive mother board is needed to get a serious performer. You don't have to spend more for features that really won't make your system run that much faster.

Why does buying a cheap MB make sense? The main features more expensive MB's support are multiple graphics cards and over clocking. Since sim software doesn't work well with multiple graphics cards then having a MB with a single graphics card slot isn't a negative. Regarding overclocking. The unlocked CPU's sell for a premium as well as the "Z" series MB's. If the stock speeds can run the sim, save your $$'s and buy cheaper CPU's and MB's.

The same logic applies to buying memory. Unless all the parts support overclocking buying memory faster than DDR3 1600 MHz doesn't make sense. Applies to power supplies as well.

Regarding the i5 verses i7 CPU decision. Unless this PC is being used for loads that work well with multiple threads (such as video rendering), a faster single core will make more difference to the sim than more slower cores. The extra cost of the i7 isn't the best buy if getting the most bang for the buck is the goal.

Option: Spend some of that saved money on a better graphics card. Or SSD!

Upgrade option #2. Buy the least expensive LGA1150 "Z" series MB and a cheaper CPU/memory. Use the sim for a while. See how it performs. In the mean time, the price of faster Haswell CPU's will drop as Intel rolls out Skylake. Buy a faster CPU when the price/performance ratio is better in the future.

My PC buying PC buying strategy. PC's will always be cheaper in the future. Buy only as much PC as needed for the short term. Delay upgrades as long as possible. Reevaluate as the need changes. Trying to future proof your system often results in spending more trying to predict an uncertain future. And yes this strategy is likely to have one replace more systems but each time the new system will be built knowing what your needs are and what is available in the market.

To stevekirks: low power consumption is one of the benefits of the GTX750Ti. It's perfect for a system with a smaller power supply. Power draw is listed at only 60 watts. Will work with a 300 Watt power supply.

I'll reply more later, but a quick note: a more expensive board might have the better chipset that will support more PCI lanes into the processor. That will ensure greater bus throughput for the graphics card and drives, plus USB/eSATA gear. I found that out when researching this very thing.

If we assume:

• PC is mainly used for PC flight sim use (loads don't scale well with more cores/threads).
• The stock CPU speeds are adequate.
• SINGLE graphics card. Which really isn't a problem since current flight sim software doesn't use this feature.
• no video rendering or other large multi-threaded loads.
• Main goal is to get the MOST "bang for the buck".

Under the above goals if a MB (or any part) cost twice as much then it needs to be twice as good. To often the build cost creeps up 10% here. 20% there. All in the name of "future proofing". To actually get a system with the MOST bang for the buck requires a great amount of discipline.

Under the goals above, paying the difference between a i5 and an i7 isn't a good buy. Why? Because after the flight sim has loaded, improving the speed of a single core will improve performance more than adding more cores/threads. <covers head>.

Consider that even a H97 MB will have a dedicated CPU lane for the graphics card. But a good cost case can be made for getting the cheapest "Z" series MB because of better upgrade options (future overclock) and preserves the cost of the OS (Windows). IE, keep the MB but update CPU and memory as the cost of each declines.

I still believe that if you are running an older LGA775/DDR2 generation hardware that a surprisingly powerful LGA1150 system could be built for less than $250-300. Will be even better if re-using parts from a previous build (case, power supply, HD, DVD, graphics card).

Save even more by taking advantage of me.

wmburns wrote:I still believe that if you are running an older LGA775/DDR2 generation hardware that a surprisingly powerful LGA1150 system could be built for less than $250-300. Will be even better if re-using parts from a previous build (case, power supply, HD, DVD, graphics card).

Save even more by taking advantage of me.

Heh....

I'm running a Dell Optiplex 960 - a $230 grade A recertified by Dell that I picked up on a sale from their off lease direct sales site awhile back. I don't have much that could transfer over (120GB SSD, two 160GB drives, DVD burner) because the case and power supply are Dell-specific. I've been putting off building my own until the end of the year, and now I'm in a situation where someone is giving me a brand new Dell Inspiron 3000 they bought from OfficeDepot (i5-4460 3.2GHZ, 8GB RAM, 1TB drive) so I'll move into that one in a few weeks. That seems like enough horsepower to run that GTX750Ti and the SSD will work for Windows, the 1TB spinning drive for the FS installs and apps, plus the chipset will have the bandwidth to actually move data pretty quickly between cards/drives/processor. In my current setup, processor usage on all four cores holds at about 70% when X-Plane is running, and with other research I've done, the bottleneck I have today is the bus speeds/bandwidth on the older chipset.

Thanks for all of the feedback on this. Let me know when you're ready to give up the GTX750Ti and we'll work through PMs to get the details set.