PilotEdge Forums

On the sectionals there are many instances of "CTC SOCAL APP WITHIN 20NM on 1xx.xx". Would I do this even if I didn't want flight following? If I get airborne from an uncontrolled airfield, would I just make a brief statement like "C/S climbing 6500 VFR to the northwest". Do I need to inform them of every level change, and significant turn?
I appreciate flight following has many advantages - but in some ways can make things a little too easy. I'm getting more familiar with the airspace, and am looking at tactical routes and levels that don't have me ploughing through every Charlie and Delta enroute, as I'm sure in real life some of these frequencies get so busy getting a word in edge-ways becomes a real challenge, and flight following isn't always available?
Do pilots sometimes listen out on these frequencies without calling?
Thanks
Eugene

Only contact them if you are going to enter that Class C or B airspace or want advisories. (Emergency as well of course).

Those "CTC SOCAL APP..." boxes are for the Class C airspaces that they surround. If you are going to enter the Class C then you are required to establish two-way radio communication prior to entering the airspace. If not, then you are not required to make contact.

You would make your "C/S climbing..." call on the CTAF of the uncontrolled field. It would not be appropriate to make such an announcement on an ATC frequency if you are not receiving any services from them. You are not required to report heading and/or altitude changes to ATC while flying VFR outside of controlled airspace, but some controllers may request it in more congested areas.

Flight following is an additional service that ATC is not required to provide and if things are that busy then your request could be denied. Certainly becoming aware of controlled airspace and having a plan to circumnavigate if you cannot establish communications is a good goal, but I would avoid the thought that flight following makes it "too easy". Flight Following has significant safety advantages over flying "blind", and making things safer should always be paramount.

Where I fly light aircraft, flight following is sometimes not available due to lack of radar coverage (mountainous terrain). In those cases, after establishing no radar services are available, I keep a listening watch on the appropriate frequency.

overload wrote:...as I'm sure in real life some of these frequencies get so busy getting a word in edge-ways becomes a real challenge, and flight following isn't always available?

Do pilots sometimes listen out on these frequencies without calling?

Absolutely. I fly around Indianapolis and Chicago, and sometimes the approach controls there get too busy to even get a word in on the frequency. We'll monitor them and call if frequency congestion decreases.

HRutila wrote:

overload wrote:...as I'm sure in real life some of these frequencies get so busy getting a word in edge-ways becomes a real challenge, and flight following isn't always available?

Do pilots sometimes listen out on these frequencies without calling?

Absolutely. I fly around Indianapolis and Chicago, and sometimes the approach controls there get too busy to even get a word in on the frequency. We'll monitor them and call if frequency congestion decreases.

Same here, with NY N90.

Thanks Guys - useful information.
When I say "too easy", don't get me wrong - in the real world "easy" is good, and undoubtedly safer! But PE is a training environment, "too easy" isn't necessarily realistic, and may give a false idea of what to expect real world.
As an example - I did a VFR flight from French Field (F70) to Zamperini (KTOA) with flight following from SOCAL. It was a purely visual flight - no navaids, so took a scenic route with easily identifiable landmarks like lakes and stadiums. I advised SOCAL I'd be remaining outside the John Wayne Charlie, but the Controller (kindly) said I could transit it if I wanted, I thanked him and began modifying my route and once clear of the high ground east of SNA, started descending from 6500ft.
So I'm descending to levels unknown to SOCAL, on unpredicable tracks, through the John Wayne Charlie, and possibly/probably various Delta's, I'm thinking to myself, surely it doesn't work like this in real life?
This is absolutely no criticism of ATC, I appreciate that controller was almost certainly the controlling aurthority for all the airspaces within my vicinity, and would have be aware of any conflicting traffic - the abscence of which allowed him to let me have "Carte Blanche" with my levels and routings.
But that's what I mean about "too easy",
Thanks
Eugene

overload wrote:So I'm descending to levels unknown to SOCAL, on unpredicable tracks, through the John Wayne Charlie, and possibly/probably various Delta's, I'm thinking to myself, surely it doesn't work like this in real life?

I can't speak for SOCAL airspace which is quite a bit busier than where I fly, but I've been cleared into Bravos (Cincinnatti) without restriction before. Was planning to go around to the north a bit on descent and without prompting the controller said "Cleared into the Bravo". So, if it isn't busy clearances like that are pretty common.

Eugene, you're right, if there's any kind of r/w traffic load, you're going to receive some type of altitude restriction, or at the very least, "advise prior to any altitude changes." I've been given headings and altitudes to fly when traversing a busy Charlies, but I've also been given carte blanche in the Memphis and PIttsburgh Bravos before, similar to Reece's experience.

Thanks guys, getting a better understanding of how things work in the States - coming from Euroland, where airspace "lock-down" is more the norm, it takes a bit of getting used to!
Eugene