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I've been thinking on these for a while, (scary right?) Say you depart out of SMX and file an IFR flight plan down to SBA. And you intend to fly the ODP. Do you have to let the controller know that you are going to be flying to ODP. Or is the controller going to give you the ODP. Or should you just fly it and not tell him you are going to? This is probably a very noobish question.

Great question.
You don't need a clearance to fly an ODP (remember you need clearance to fly a SID).
Flying out of SMX you will most likely be given departure instructions and quickly handed over to a departure controller shortly after takeoff.
If you are not given departure instructions (unlikely from SMX), then it is your responsibility to get to the first fix and for that you should fly an ODP as it guarantees clearance from obstructions.

If you takeoff from F70, (non-towered) you will most likely be cleared AS FILED after an initial fix. Under this circumstance, you will have to fly an ODP if you are IMC.

It's ALWAYS a good idea to let the controller know you're flying an ODP even though you don't need a clearance. That will ensure you and the controllers are on the same page.

Try a flight from SMX and then one from F70 and you will see the difference.

There are occasions where the controller will instruct you to fly a specific ODP. In this case, you MUST fly it if you accept the clearance.

Hope this helps and I look forward to other's input on this.

501Aviator wrote:I've been thinking on these for a while, (scary right?) Say you depart out of SMX and file an IFR flight plan down to SBA. And you intend to fly the ODP. Do you have to let the controller know that you are going to be flying to ODP. Or is the controller going to give you the ODP. Or should you just fly it and not tell him you are going to? This is probably a very noobish question.

Lets look at this from the simple route of KSMX to the Gaviota VOR and the KSBA
That would be a valid IFR flight plan to file and the controller would probably give the the ODP as part of the clearance when you called in. The SID that would make more sense would be the BUELT2.GVO where all airplanes take off from any runway (except 20) and turn right to 190 to intercept the GLJ 130 radial. From there, you head to BUELT intersection which is found by cross referencing two VORs and you're all set from there.

Now the ODP
The ODP looks to be a valid way to go but there's a speed restriction here to worry about, plus most importantly, you're required to fly to the Morro Bay VORTAC which is in the opposite direction you want to go. So returning to the core idea of flying from Santa Maria to Santa Barbara with an IFR flight plan, BUELT2.GVO would set you up for Santa Barbara Approach to get you vectors to final for the ILS runway 7 approach.

schwed wrote:You don't need a clearance to fly an ODP (remember you need clearance to fly a SID).

If you file IFR, you need a clearance for everything. If this was a VFR flight to Santa Barbara, the you could fly the ODP on your own after being released to "own nav".

schwed wrote:It's ALWAYS a good idea to let the controller know you're flying an ODP even though you don't need a clearance. That will ensure you and the controllers are on the same page.

Assuming it's VFR, then I would agree...

stevekirks wrote:

schwed wrote:You don't need a clearance to fly an ODP (remember you need clearance to fly a SID).

If you file IFR, you need a clearance for everything. If this was a VFR flight to Santa Barbara, the you could fly the ODP on your own after being released to "own nav".

schwed wrote:It's ALWAYS a good idea to let the controller know you're flying an ODP even though you don't need a clearance. That will ensure you and the controllers are on the same page.

Assuming it's VFR, then I would agree...

If you aren't given specific IFR departure instructions (a heading, a SID, etc.), you can fly the ODP at your discretion. It's a very good idea to tell ATC that's what you intend to do, but technically you don't even have to do that. In practice at towered airports you'll almost always get some sort of departure instructions, but at non-towered airports you might just be cleared via the first fix on your route. Then it's up to you to use the ODP to avoid hitting things on the way there.

RyanK wrote:If you aren't given specific IFR departure instructions (a heading, a SID, etc.), you can fly the ODP at your discretion. It's a very good idea to tell ATC that's what you intend to do, but technically you don't even have to do that. In practice at towered airports you'll almost always get some sort of departure instructions, but at non-towered airports you might just be cleared via the first fix on your route. Then it's up to you to use the ODP to avoid hitting things on the way there.

Thanks--nice to have an instructor weigh in here. I was trying to frame my answer from the specific example, but I wondered how non-towered would work. Keith has talked about VFR departures for IFR flight plans before as a way to do your own ODP when VFR conditions would allow.

Ryan is correct. Also, don't always expect clearance to that first fix anyways.

"N123AB, cleared from (apt) to (apt) as filed..." Is common. I this case, the controller expects you to get to that first fix on your own either via an ODP, diverse departure, etc...

Out of a towered airport situated in TRACON airspace, your chances of not receiving initial departure instructions are slim. The SOP for SMX is to issue you a heading (if your'e not on a SID), which is going to negate the option of flying the ODP.

One of the few places you can practically fly the ODP at a towered airport is out of Brown Field (SDM). In fact, it's going to be assigned to you, which is even more rare.

Riverside(RAL) is another good one where the ODP gets assigned and can be a challenge to visualize depending on the runway and route direction.

Ryan, I'd forgotten that, you're quite right. It's used except if rwy 16 is in use (which isn't often, I imagine).