PilotEdge Forums

Hello Pilots,

Yesterday I was doing some pattern work on RW 20R at KSNA on the network with the default Cirrus the Jet (SF50) in X-Plane. This is what the chart for KSNA has to say on the pattern alts:

RY 02L/20R TPA 1,000 FT AGL SMALL ACFT; 1,500 FT AGL TURBINE ACFT OVER 12,500 LBS; RY 02R/20L TPA 800 FT AGL SMALL SGL ENG ACFT; 1000 FT AGL TWIN ENG ACFT.

So: 20R TPA 1,000 FT AGL SMALL ACFT
and: 1,500 FT AGL TURBINE ACFT OVER 12,500 LBS

I decided to go for 1000ft since I was in a small jet under 12500 lbs. this classifies it as small ACFT and pattern should be flown at 1000 right?

well after climbing up to 1000 and reporting midfield John Wayne Tower advised me that pattern alt for jets is 1500. I did my next two patterns at 1500.

I am still unsure how am I supposed to arrive at 1500 by just looking at the charts. May be I am missing something? I thought I deciphered what the charts says corerctly.

I agree that the guidance is unclear.

The intent is for it to be like this:

Small Aircraft: 1000' AGL
Turbine Aircraft and Aircraft over 12500 lbs: 1500' AGL

I'm basing that assumption on this regulation:

From 91.129

(1) Unless required by the applicable distance-from-cloud criteria, each pilot operating a large or turbine-powered airplane must enter the traffic pattern at an altitude of at least 1,500 feet above the elevation of the airport and maintain at least 1,500 feet until further descent is required for a safe landing.

and

Unless otherwise required by the prescribed departure procedure for that airport or the applicable distance from clouds criteria, each pilot of a turbine-powered airplane and each pilot of a large airplane must climb to an altitude of 1,500 feet above the surface as rapidly as practicable.

However, I agree the pattern guidance is very poorly worded.

Thanks for the prompt answer Peter!