PilotEdge Forums

Hello PilotEdge, and all you wonderful folks out there,

I am in no way a pilot. Lets clear that up first. I would love to, someday (finances/time allowing), attend a flight school and earn my private pilot certificate. But the fact is that's just not in my immediate horizon. I've been an avid flight sim enthusiast for several years however (since the release of FS 2000). After flying FSX for a few years my interest started to dwindle as I found that the realism of the sims only went so far. About a year ago I happened across a YouTube video discussing the ins and outs of VFR flight planning. That video happened to be a PilotEdge Workshop. After watching a few of the workshops I got the urge to get the sim out again and start flying. However, not to long ago I again came to the realization that something was missing. That something was real ATC communications.

So after some looking, I downloaded Pilot Edge and signed up for a trial. I put my plane at L52, connected to the server, got the ATIS, and then made my first radio call "Oceano traffic, Cessna N5691J, taking off runway 11, departing to the North, Oceano" (If you recognize that tail number from the past few days, you probably know where this is going). So now I'm in the air, and I call San Luis Tower and made my next call. I probably sounded like an elementary student asking permission to go to the bathroom, but the controller didn't seam to mind my shyness, and instructed me to enter the pattern. I had my pen and paper ready to write if needed and was ready to give my read back. I then proceeded not only to forget what runway I was entering a pattern for, but I also forgot my tail number. The controller, thankfully, simply repeated the clearance as if he hadn't heard my apparent stroke, gave the instructions for entering the pattern again, and I read it back correctly (or at least enough that he was sure I'd at least crash at the right airport). So I got my clearance to land, landed and taxied to parking. I thought to myself, "that wasn't that bad was it?" It was just stage fright.

Looking at the homepage the next day, I saw the focus fields and thought I'd try them (KVNY - KSBA for that day). So I planned my flight from KVNY. I intended to get flight following, as I've always done it before in the sim, and know it's generally accepted as a good idea. I then planned to overfly Point Mugu and the other Class Ds at 4,500, and land at KSBA after about 45 minutes. I set up at KVNY and decided to listen for a bit to get the rhythm of things. I had all of my expected frequencies listed out and was just about to call KVNY GND when I heard another pilot at another airport calling GND, asking for FF. He was promptly told to contact Clearance Delivery, which he did. So I looked the airport info and found KVNY CD. I made my call to CD and after some initial corrections from ATC on my wording, I was told to "squak 3617 departure freq 134.2" or something to that effect. I read back the info and all was well... except it wasn't. I just froze. I had no idea what to do next. I ultimately decided the most appropriate course of action was to tuck tail and run.

The next day naivety got the best of me, as I incorrectly thought that doing the same thing under the same circumstances, with the same knowledge (or lack thereof) would yield different results. It did not. I got to the same point and again, I froze. I could not wrap my head around why I was being given the SOCAL Departure freq before I even taxied. I thought to myself, "Are they the ones to clear me to taxi, and take off? Do I still contact KVNY GND?" I Googled for an answer and came up with plenty of results about Clearance Delivery, but nothing to answer my question. Again I ultimately admitted defeat by silently tucking my tail and going home. I understand now (correct me if I'm wrong) that what I was supposed to do after contacting KVNY GD was contact KVNY GND, then KVNY TWR like normal, at which point I would either be handed off to SOCAL Departure or contact them once told "Freq change approved". I also came to the conclusion that I didn't need to contact them if I didn't want to request flight following, or requested it after takeoff.

What it boils down to is that after years of using the ATC window in the sim, I THOUGHT I had an understanding of what was going on with the ATC communications, when in REALITY I was Microsoft's trained monkey, pressing whatever button the ATC window decided was best for me to push at the time.

Long story short: Is there any hope for someone with no real world experience talking to ATC, and an (at best) confused understanding of talking with ATC from sim experience? Would I be able to learn anything from Pilot Edge or would I simply be getting in the way (you won't offend me!) I suppose in future I should start with the VFR training ratings if I want to get anywhere. That and watch some more Workshops.

Don't be too concerned, what to do and when is not really intuitive when you first start out with ATC.

That is why PilotEdge setup a ratings program. Its not about completing levels like in a video game but more about walking one through all the procedures and phraseology required to complete flights on ATC. The best part is they provide transcripts of what to say and when, also what to expect ATC will say and when. Now don't take these literally, there will be minor differences in what instructions you get but the framework of how to communicate is all there.

Have fun, every level is not only satisfying it ultimately gains you confidence to try flights of the same scenario on your own.

http://training.pilotedge.net/page/ratings

Hi Josh,

Welcome to the network. Stealthbob's recommendation to utilize the training program is a good one. The 'first flight' is really just an ice-breaker. It doesn't equip with you with the knowledge to conduct any random VFR flight from point to point within Socal. The V-x ratings in the training program (and soon the new CAT ratings) provide a bit more guidance on that.

If you'd like more one-on-one help as you get started, there is our Remote Coaching program, too.

Your goal isn't too lofty, it's certainly possible to get there.

I'm in the same boat to some extend. I'm also just a flight simmer without any real world flying experience (in the cockpit, that is ) and i'll probably never get any. I didn't even have a single minute of online flying experience before joining PE.

Will I make mistakes and sometimes annoy someone? Most likely. But my goal is to not make the same mistake twice.

I would also recommend going through the training program. I only did the V-1 and 2 so far (still busy with working on our house), but I hope to find the time for the V-3 in the next weeks.
And I learned a lot by watching youtube and twitch streams/recordings of flights on PE. There are a number of full flights performed by experienced people to be watched there.

I have to agree 200% with the above comments and additionally would like to add that I have read your entire post up there...

You may not realize it but it sounds like you are better prepared than some others that are just starting out. You watched the workshop videos (great!)... You read how to do the first flight and made a perfect advisory call. You had paper and pen ready (awesome!) You had trouble with what to say on your own and what to do with the instructions given....

You know what you need?.... PilotEdge!
This is a learning network. If everyone knew what they were doing on this network, it would basically be pointless.

Real world and on the network: if you have a question or do not fully understand something that is been told to you by air traffic control- ASK!!! An air traffic controller would much rather you take a few more seconds out of the radio time to inquire about those instructions rather than perform them incorrectly when it could have been resolved with a simple explanation. If the controller is too busy they will provide you with alternate and more easy to understand instructions.

The great thing about this network is that it is expected that you do not understand everything. Therefore, it is expected that you will be asking certain questions. If the answer will take too long to explain on frequency, the best course of action is to post here on the forums in my opinion.

Furthermore, when you start completing these recommended pilot ratings, or other flights, you are going to mess up and you are going to fail some (maybe). The controller is going to tell you what you did wrong and just be sure to try to fix it the next time around. Doesn't matter if it takes 2 or 43 times to get it right. At least you try and get better a little each time.

"A good pilot never stops learning"
This is a learning network. Use it!

Answering the specific KVNY part: That's a Class Charlie, so you're given a squawk and departure frequency so you can maintain two way communications with the controlling entity. Once you're airborne, even VFR, you'll be handed to Departure (SoCal) and probably be told to resume own nav and appropriate VFR altitudes.

Each area is a little different with VFR departures, depending on the airspace type. Sometimes you get a heading and altitude restriction due to local policy or published departure procedures. The "V" ratings are really helpful for this stuff with the V-3 bringing it all together.

Like others have said, just ask. If it's a quick answer, they will usually give it like "there's a published departure procedure" or "it's a Class Charlie so we need to give you the squawk" or similar stuff. Asking on the ground is no sin, but flying around and going it alone will get a polite rebuke.

Hardest lesson for me: don't be ashamed of the mistakes. You're paying for the service and one of it's benefits is learning things.

Don't beat yourself up. First off, take a deep breath and remember that this is supposed to be fun. You will pretty quickly get the flow of communications with ATC. Yes sometimes they throw things at you that you were not expecting but just take it in stride. If you don't understand something, just ask for clarification. I try to write just about everything down that ATC gives me unless it is something like a frequency change or a heading change that I am going to do immediately. That way my poor memory doesn't get me. LOL

You might start off just flying from a small non-towered airport to a Class D airport several times. Get the hang of talking with ATC on the arrival side. That gives you some time during the flight to think about what you are going to say and do. Then practice flying from that Class D airport to a non-towered airport. Get the hang of talking with ATC on the departure end. Then combine both and go Class D to Class D. Then you can go up to flying to a bigger airport like a Class C that will introduce new controller positions. Take it slow and have fun. Don't give up!

awreaper, that is pretty much the progression of the new CAT ratings

Josh, in your initial post you've already demonstrated some of the important qualities for an airman: self-awareness, critical reflection, inquisitive mind, an inclination to learn and improve. The rest is just an accumulated routine: a matter of practice and experience and will come in due course, the guys have already provided plenty of good advice on how to proceed. Most importantly have fun along the way

You say CAT ratings? Bring them in!

Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions! I gave it another shot, this time flying patterns at John Wayne, and all things considered I think it went a lot better. I'll keep at it and see how things go.

PS Thank you to the controllers who all seem to have an endless amount of patience.