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Did it today, and man was it fun. I can't believe how great this service and community are. Thank you Keith and the PE team. You really do a great job.

For those about to go for this rating, you're probably new to this (which is why you're not flying IFR). I know it can be intimidating, so I posted some of my approach to the test here: http://www.ontheglideslope.net/2016/05/ ... ilot-edge/

The long and short of it is:

- Watch Mark Hargrove's videos on the V-3, BOTH of them (#1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJn6MwtIO_c and #2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTTC1l4CeOk)

- Have a log sheet written out with every frequency change you plan to make, the freq if you can know it ahead of time, and your planned altitude changes. Check them off as you go.

- Use autopilot when and where it makes sense so you can stay outside the aircraft and manage the radios.

- Fly the flight off-network at least once, so you have a sense visually of where you are in the airspace, and in particular, the timing from when you make the turn north of the Bravo and start to come through south again. This is especially true if you're flying the Mini Route, where the handoffs happen quickly.

The flight only last an hour. Does it makes sense to spend two to three hours prepping? In my view, for what you'll learn about Bravo airspace, absolutely.

I'm sure some PE gray beards might be rolling their eyes, but for us noobs this test can get in your head. Passing it felt really great, and I can't wait to start on IFR (and apply the lessons I've learned here to my RW PPL training).

Thanks again to the PE team.

PS: Also, my apologies to the KSNA clearance controller for hitting you with so much info on the first call. I was fired up.

Thanks for the heads up.

Watched Mark's videos. Lot of notes...

Go get 'em, Turner.

Got 'em.

Onto I-1.

I'm torn about this one. One one hand, I could say, "to each their own, if this works...go for it," but I'm left with the nagging feeling that this approach might give people the impression that it's not possible to successfully complete a flight through Bravo airspace without intense preflight planning and offline pre-flying of the route.

At its core, these Bravo transitions are nothing more than tracking a radial and receiving a clearance through the airspace.

Regarding frequency changes, it's admirable to have them all written down ahead of time, but a more practical skill is to be able to quickly identify on the fly which position you need to talk to next, then look it up and get it onto the standby radio.

Why is this useful and important? Because if the plan changes on a flight, you need to be able to react to it in the air. For example, if the weather didn't allow for the mini-route to be flown and you now needed to do the SFRA, or Coastal Route instead, a proficient pilot would be able to adjust on the fly by reading the plate and then identifying the frequencies to use.

I know it's daunting when you're just getting started, and the V-3 is artificially tricky because it requires back to back transitions with good decision making about when to turn around and start the 2nd transition because of the different altitudes that are likely to be used on the first and second transitions.

If the process you outlined gave you the confidence to get through the V3, then that can't be a bad thing. However, I would encourage you to try it again (ungraded) using different transitions with a slightly more relaxed approach, no offline pre-flying, and maybe even change the plan half way through the flight. This where you'll want to get to in terms of confidence and proficiency in the long term. I'd strike while the iron is hot and do some "V3+" plus flights before moving onto the I-1 until transitioning the LAX Bravo is just "ho hum." That way, you'll have the confidence to use the transition as an everyday tool to get from A to B, rather than it being a significant event and potential source of anxiety, or even worse, something to be avoided altogether.

This was exactly my feeling when doing it, though having flown in, around, and through PHL B a lot, I was spending some time trying to figure out what, exactly, the hardest part was; THAT, in fact, WAS the hardest part.

FWIW I didn't note any frequencies, but, like I do on my kneeboard, drew a box where I'd expect one. I didn't ask for any, as I had a reference open, but I can say that except for local (airport ops) frequencies I anticipate I'll get what I expect but don't assume it.

I just created a short routing checklist and ticked things off, and it was clockwork.

Though, two things that tripped me up:

1) Technology trip-up... southbound, I was waiting for clearance into LA B. I was zoomed in on my screen, and didn't get clearance yet, so turned West to avoid B... as soon as the controller asked me if I had turned West, I kinda went "oh cr*p", zoomed out, and realized I'd be under the shelf... oops..

2) Exiting B to the south of the LA B I had to ask for a frequency change to tower. I'm not used to that, as locally, ATC will typically advise frequency change. I'm assuming that, like RW, we can ask to advise frequency if needed. I am not sure about this (real-world standards and limits) so will start a new topic.

Keith, maybe a good challenge is to cross all routes in both directions (not all in the same challenge, of course...) I'm planning on doing that anyway as the V3 required some very different thinking...

Keith Smith wrote:I'm torn about this one. One one hand, I could say, "to each their own, if this works...go for it," but I'm left with the nagging feeling that this approach might give people the impression that it's not possible to successfully complete a flight through Bravo airspace without intense preflight planning and offline pre-flying of the route.

At its core, the Bravo transitions are nothing more than tracking a radial and receiving a clearance through the airspace.

Regarding frequency changes, it's admirable to have them all written down ahead of time, but a more practical skill is to be able to quickly identify on the fly which position you need to talk to next, then look it up and get it onto the standby radio.

Why is this useful and important? Because if the plan changes on a flight, you need to be able to react to it in the air. For example, if the weather didn't allow for the mini-route to be flown and you now needed to do the SFRA, or Coastal Route instead, a proficient pilot would be able to adjust on the fly by reading the plate and then identifying the frequencies to use.

I know it's daunting when you're just getting started, and the V-3 is artificially tricky because it requires back to back transitions with good decision making about when to turn around and start the 2nd transition because of the different altitudes that are likely to be used on the first and second transitions.

If the process you outlined gave you the confidence to get through the V3, then that can't be a bad thing. However, I would encourage you to try it again (ungraded) using different transitions with a slightly more relaxed approach, no offline pre-flying, and maybe even change the plan half way through the flight. This where you'll want to get to in terms of confidence and proficiency in the long term. I'd strike while the iron is hot and do some "V3+" plus flights before moving onto the I-1 until transitioning the LAX Bravo is just "ho hum." That way, you'll have the confidence to use the transition as an everyday tool to get from A to B, rather than it being a significant event and potential source of anxiety, or even worse, something to be avoided altogether.

Keith Smith wrote:I'm torn about this one. One one hand, I could say, "to each their own, if this works...go for it," but I'm left with the nagging feeling that this approach might give people the impression that it's not possible to successfully complete a flight through Bravo airspace without intense preflight planning and offline pre-flying of the route.

At its core, these Bravo transitions are nothing more than tracking a radial and receiving a clearance through the airspace.

Regarding frequency changes, it's admirable to have them all written down ahead of time, but a more practical skill is to be able to quickly identify on the fly which position you need to talk to next, then look it up and get it onto the standby radio.

Why is this useful and important? Because if the plan changes on a flight, you need to be able to react to it in the air. For example, if the weather didn't allow for the mini-route to be flown and you now needed to do the SFRA, or Coastal Route instead, a proficient pilot would be able to adjust on the fly by reading the plate and then identifying the frequencies to use.

I know it's daunting when you're just getting started, and the V-3 is artificially tricky because it requires back to back transitions with good decision making about when to turn around and start the 2nd transition because of the different altitudes that are likely to be used on the first and second transitions.

If the process you outlined gave you the confidence to get through the V3, then that can't be a bad thing. However, I would encourage you to try it again (ungraded) using different transitions with a slightly more relaxed approach, no offline pre-flying, and maybe even change the plan half way through the flight. This where you'll want to get to in terms of confidence and proficiency in the long term. I'd strike while the iron is hot and do some "V3+" plus flights before moving onto the I-1 until transitioning the LAX Bravo is just "ho hum." That way, you'll have the confidence to use the transition as an everyday tool to get from A to B, rather than it being a significant event and potential source of anxiety, or even worse, something to be avoided altogether.

Thanks for the feedback, Keith. It means a lot and is well-taken.

I think the operative term for me in your message was "a proficient pilot." I'm not a RW pilot, although I just--literally--started PPL lessons (a sum total of one under my belt). And in terms of PE the V-03 attempt was my 9th flight on the network with a total of about three hours of flight time with ATC. Which means I'd had three hours in total talking to ATC, lifetime, in any form.

As a guy who's not (yet) a real world pilot, but who loves aviation, simming it, and learning all he can about it, what I've found is part of the challenge of PE is gaining the level of competency necessary just to operate on the network in a way that isn't frustrating for the controllers or embarrassing for the pilot. Frankly, some of the tools to help us on PE can contribute to the nervousness, including all the ratings, the workshops, and the additional videos on the ratings. On the one hand, they are HUGELY helpful, but on the other, they carry a subtext of, "know your stuff." That's good, because people should be intent on honoring the network as a training tool. For people who are RW pilots, though, or for those who have years on the network, I think there's a curse of knowledge where it's easy to forget how much context and experience one can have that others lack. The V-03 was a lot of fun, and in actuality was a non-event. I passed it on my first try, without incident, on a busy day. But that's because I was prepared, and had gone to the trouble to come up the learning curve to where I had a basic proficiency that I normally would not have, quickly. I wasn't intimidated by it. I just wanted to be ready for it. Because of that, I think you're right, the next time through will be very relaxed, and I wouldn't expect to prep for that any more than I would for any other VFR flight.

Maybe it's part of the challenge that will always be part of PE as long as it's a network that welcomes both RW pilots in training as well as simmers, a lot of whom are trying the whole thing out as true newbies. And if I'm like most of the non-RW crowd, a lot of us may be cautious about the training programs, feel embarrassed when messing up with controllers, and definitely aren't excited about having a controller say they failed a test on the network. It would be a shame if those guys shied away from the process of trying in the first place, and I was just trying to help guys like that (and like me) out.

I've become a huge fan in a short period of time, and have been advocating for PE just about everywhere I deal with folks on- and off-line. So I'm with you: I absolutely didn't want to give people the impression that it's not possible to fly through a Bravo without intense preflight planning and offline pre-flying of the route. But for people who have little to no experience, some prep like this might be a way of giving them the confidence to go for it, after which what should be routine can become more routine.

I certainly don't have any anxiety about the Bravo now, or see it as something to be avoided. I think the rating test had everything to do with that, which is why the training program is so brilliant: it works. To which point your final advice of doing a bunch of V3+ flights is spot on. I plan to, and am started on the Alphabet Challenge as well. Thanks for your guidance and taking the time to reply.

EDIT:

Reading this again, I want to make sure one message shines through. I want to do everything I can to brand PE as a really killer service that anyone who wants to really enrich their sim experience should not only try, but join. I mean, it's transformative. It really helped me come to the decision to try for my PPL. And I'm such an advocate that I've probably become a broken record at AVSIM and other online forums about how great it really is. So I definitely DON'T want to do things that shy new pilots and simmers away from it, but I DO want to help new folks be able to try it at a more advanced level such that they can feel comfortable flying around the airspace and not just in and out of D or un-towerd fields. And I DO want to help people who might be on VATSIM or not flying with ATC at all try it out and have the comfort to get into it, because I think that once you have three flights under your belt, you go well past the 14 day trial. That's what I was trying to do in the post above, and anything else I can help to do that, I will.

I want to add to this great topic here...

BFG wrote: And if I'm like most of the non-RW crowd, a lot of us may be cautious about the training programs, feel embarrassed when messing up with controllers, and definitely aren't excited about having a controller say they failed a test on the network.

Unfortunately I find this to be a common way of thinking. I have seen flight instructors fail multiple ratings on the PE network. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't learn something about aviation that I didn't know before. Nobody knows it all, not even RW ATCs. One of my favorite quotes is "A good pilot never stops learning".

The controllers are here to provide you with air traffic control services. They also serve as a test examiner during the ratings. If one fails you, it is not because they are upset at you. It is their way of saying "just try it again". You're not inconveniencing them at all. You did not actually put anybody's life at risk. You should not feel embarrassed. Simply take the reason they failed you, study up on it a bit more and then redo the test. If you fail again, then you fail again. repeat.

Better for you to learn your lesson here on a virtual network rather than taking your chances out in the real world.

Thanks, Kyle. I think that IS a common way new folks probably think about the network, and it is unfortunate. This line from the "Simulation Enthusiasts" page on the PE website nails the right expectation simmers should have, IMO:

If you’re up for the challenge of flying in a multiplayer simulation environment designed to support real-world pilot training and proficiency, this is the right place for you. If not, then other networks would likely be a better fit. The best way to find out is to join PilotEdge and see what you think.

Maybe the website would benefit for a "Getting Started With Air Traffic Control" page specifically for folks getting into this for the first time. I think there can be a little bit of an information gap between the pretty scripted Oceana first flight and having the VFR workshops under your belt. Mark's videos help close that gap, but it still doesn't quite get into the basics of how ATC works and the basic "whys" of some of the whats. I'm talking about the difference between clearance, ground, tower, departure, center, and approach; how to make the basic calls (e.g., you don't need to say all of "November" and "Cessna" and "Skyhawk" and your tail number, just one of the former and tail number will do); that you need to stay with tower until released on departure, etc.; and the content that currently exists in the V-1 pattern work materials. There are some good resources I've found online, but a page for new people trying to step into the environment for the first time that gives those basics might be a helpful bridge into not only doing the Oceana flight, but a few more flights on the network before trying for a training rating. Because I don't believe in giving people problems to solve, I would be happy to help with this if you guys would like.

I really admire the controllers - you guys need to treat it as a serious training environment, which means playing the role of controller as authentically as you can, and at the same time you help folks get acclimated, coach, be patient, etc. I'd buy you all a beer if I could, and you're right, I learn from PE every time I'm on the network, either from what I do or what others do.

It would be impossible to make an all inclusive beginners guide. There is just too much information... It would scare one away. Rather, I think it's better to read the transcript and any other study materials you come across and just go for it. The controllers and listening to others will help you perfect the language and will direct you otherwise. I think the "first flight" does a good job at leading them into this.

The "first flight" is not all inclusive. You are right... But I don't think it is meant to be. It is simple and gives the new pilot an ice-breaker. Then, from what I have heard/seen, they usually do a flight back to Oceana . This gives them a chance to experience the other side of being at a controlled airport for departure but then uncontrolled on the way back. With these two flights, most of them have already picked up some good skills because the controller likely corrected them in a few spots such as:

"N123AB, SBP ground. Before I can taxi you, I need to know where you are located on the field and confirmation that you have the weather..."

Now the pilot knows from now on to give that information. This processes continues through the training program.