PilotEdge Forums

On August 10th, at about 1030 Pacific, I checked in for an IFR flight from KSBA to KSMX via FLOUT5.RZS.
The part of the clearance confusing me was
"climb via SID, accept maintain 3000, expect 6000 10 minutes after departure".

If the controller wants me to climb via SID which means - in my opinion - to climb and maintain 6000, why did he add accept maintain?
Did "climb via SID" meant to fly the published route to gain altitude? A clearance for the RZS transition, in my opinion, does imply to fly the published routing.
Was his intention to have me levelled off initially at 3000? If so, I would have expected "climb 3000" or "climb and maintain 6000".

In the aftermath I listened to the ATC recording, reflecting what really was the controllers intention. My conclusion now is he meant the following:

"Fly FLOUT5 RZS as published, climb and maintain 3000, expect 6000 after 10 minutes (in case of radio failure).

Also, I never heard "accept maintain" in any transmission in the past. Yesterday I heard it a couple of times. Did the FAA recently introduce a new phraseology?
Hope to get clarification on these issues.

I was so confuse that I checked out from PE and flew the flight offline.

Friedhelm, Germany

Climb via SID, Except maintain.
(Not accept)

Basically: "obey all altitude restrictions until reaching 3,000, then maintain 3,000."

"Climb and maintain" would be the same as saying "ignore what the charts says about altitude, go up to (altitude) now."

http://www3.alpa.org/portals/alpa/fastr ... 014-01.pdf

https://www.nbaa.org/ops/cns/pbn/climb- ... r_1_00.pdf


---you said that you logged offline because you didn't understand it. If the controller isn't busy, ask for clarification. This is a learning network. If they can't clarify at that time what it means, you would have been pointed in the right direction at least.

Just to add to what Kyle said by using the FLOUT5 as your example. If you take a look at the chart you'll see no top altitude listed on the chart. Sure there are restrictions on the chart that say cross the RZS 251 radial at or above 6000, or the GVO 092 radial at or above 6000 but there is no specific altitude listed on the chart for you to climb to. That's where the "except maintain 3000" comes into play. We want you to comply with the altitude restrictions on the chart up to 3000 and maintain that altitude.

To put it into perspective, I'll give you an example of a departure procedure where you will hear the words "Climb via SID" without "except maintain". Best example is any of the RNAV SID's out of KLAS. If you take a look at the BOACH6 departure chart, you'll see in big bold letters at the top with a black box around it that says "TOP ALTITUDE: FL190". It this example, we expect you to climb to FL190 but climb via SID in doing so. So if you departed runway 25L, you would have to cross ROPPR between 4800 and 7000, then cross BOACH at or above 13000 on your way up to FL190.

Clear as mud?

you also asked if it was new FAA phraseology........... If memory serves, it was changed in very early 2014.


On any IFR departure you'll ALWAYS hear one of the following:

"Climb via SID" - Climb to the top altitude listed on the chart and comply with all altitude and speed restrictions listed on the chart.

"Climb via SID, except maintain xxxx" - Climb to the "except maintain" altitude and comply with all altitude and speed restrictions on the chart up to that assigned altitude and then maintain that altitude.

"Maintain xxxx" - This is an unrestricted climb to the assigned initial altitude. You'll get this one if you are doing a non SID departure or if you are flying a SID that has no published altitude or speed restrictions.