PilotEdge Forums

For everyone who flew the LOC/DME-E into ASE last night, you might have wondered why it felt like you were way above a normal glideslope even if you were bang on profile reaching the final approach fix (DOPYE at 11,7000ft).

Consider that the field elevation is 7,837ft, which means you have to descend 3,863ft within 5.7nm, or 678ft/nm. At 90kts, that's ~1000ft/min. At 120kts, it's nearly 1400ft/min.

This ridiculous descent gradient is precisely why straight in minimums aren't published, hence it's the LOC/DME-E approach instead of the LOC/DME RWY 15 approach.

During your approach briefing, if you notice that there is no runway number in the approach name, yet the final approach course is perfectly aligned with the runway, it should raise a red flag and you should look closely to work out what the required descent gradient will be before attempting a straight in approach. Circling might be your friend!

Having spent an hour or two today smacking the stick forwards and.hurtling down to land on runway 15 this post seems to make sense.

However I'm puzzled when in the original announcement you warned pilots:

'It's a one-way field (landing south, departing north), so be prepared for some exciting ops if people plan on doing a quick turn after they land!'

Did pilots last night circle to land on 33?
Did they have the option?
Does this apply to the other three approaches - RNAV etc?

Please clarify Keith.

The meaning behind that is, as stated in the Aspen ATIS, "Due to opposite direction traffic, expect to pass in close proximity to aircraft near the airport." Aircraft landing Runway 15 would have seen aircraft depart Runway 33 and pass them as close as 1/10th mile off their left.

That approach caught me off guard... it was all looking fine until the end.... no one died though lol

HRutila wrote:The meaning behind that is, as stated in the Aspen ATIS, "Due to opposite direction traffic, expect to pass in close proximity to aircraft near the airport." Aircraft landing Runway 15 would have seen aircraft depart Runway 33 and pass them as close as 1/10th mile off their left.

Hi Harold

That wasn't what I was asking. I was aware of the takeoff and landing aircrafts being close.

Maybe wind conditions didn't favour circling to 33 on Sunday?

My question is - how will we know if we can circle and I suppose is there a size limit?

Thanks.

Circling to 33 isn't done for the same reason takeoffs from 15 aren't. There's serious terrain immediately on all sides of the airport except northwest. The missed approach point on the LOC/DME-E is a full 2.6 miles from the threshold to keep you away from that terrain.

N19947 was sent into a left downwind for 33. At about 6:30 mark with landing clearance at 7:50 mark

http://assets.pilotedge.net/recordings/ ... _11885.mp3

Dean33 wrote: Did pilots last night circle to land on 33?

Circling doesn't always mean landing on a different runway. You could circle for runway 15 (ie, not make a straight in landing but instead perform a pattern of sorts upon arriving. Not many people use 33 for landing. Normal ops is to land south and depart north.

Did they have the option?

Pilots can always request a specific runway if they have an operational requirement to use it. There might be a delay to get it, but it can usually be done.

Does this apply to the other three approaches - RNAV etc?

All 3 approaches have circling minimums published, so yes, he the same logic applies to all approaches.

Dean33 wrote:

HRutila wrote:The meaning behind that is, as stated in the Aspen ATIS, "Due to opposite direction traffic, expect to pass in close proximity to aircraft near the airport." Aircraft landing Runway 15 would have seen aircraft depart Runway 33 and pass them as close as 1/10th mile off their left.

My question is - how will we know if we can circle and I suppose is there a size limit?

Good question. The landing runway is published in the ATIS and will always be Runway 15 at ASE. Circling to Runway 33 is done only on pilot request. ATC has no jurisdiction over who can and cannot circle based on size, but as Keith alluded to, such a request may result in an arrival delay.

P.S. Departures on Runway 15 are done on pilot request, too, but in real life they need to call airport ops for permission to do so beforehand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8QUwgQq7R8

Thanks.

The Aspen airport website has some additional useful information. http://aspenairport.com/operating-proce ... -departure

Notably:

Runway 33
TORA–8006 TODA–8006 ASDA–8006 LDA–7006
Meteorological conditions permitting, use Runway 15 for all landings.
NOTE: Using Runway 33 necessitates a high approach without overflying the town of Aspen


I suppose 'metrological conditions permitting' means unless it's blowing a gale on your tail!