PilotEdge Forums

Hi

I recently signed up for the free two week trial, and have been dry running the first suggested flight offline (Oceano to San Luis), flying the route and working the radios to no one in particular as I go Well, nearly no one! The last time I ran it, I thought as ATC often gives the winds on base leg, I would double check the P3D ATIS, and the runway in use had changed to the opposite runway, 11 instead of 29.

By this stage I was lined up over the hills to make the base leg for 29, and then made a real hash of trying to change to 11. Afterwards I discussed with some other simmers / qualified pilots what they would have done. As they are from all round the world, I got 3 or 4 versions

Given that I was already close to the runway and lined up with base leg for 29 at pattern altitude, would it be correct to overfly the runway at midbeam and pattern altitude + 500, then carry out a descending loop along bearing 110 outbound / 290 inbound and rejoin the left hand pattern for 11 at pattern altitude? This took me quite close to the small hill on the far side of the runway. I have attached a picture for illustration. The pattern illustrated is not quite 1nm, should patterns always be flown at exactly this distance?

I am completely new to flying online and want to take my simming more seriously, with perhaps continuing on at some point with the PPL lessons I took so far. A concern I have for my first flight is whether I need to know other radio calls than those outlined in the flight description?

Many thanks

Hello,

I am quite new to flight sim as well and I know you will get some expert advice on this from the pros but, based on my brief experience here on PE, and given your position and intentions, I would be shocked if the controller didn't give you either left base for 29 or right downwind for 11.

One of my first eye opening experiences here on PE happened while contacting a tower and then realizing that the controller can give you any entry they deem fit or best at that moment, regardless of standard pattern direction of the desired runway, and will give you that instruction well before you get there (when you make that call from outside the airspace)

Welcome to PE!

The correct thing to do in the event of a change in runway assignment at a towered airport is to comply with the pattern entry instruction given by the tower. It's been said many times in the forum, so apologies to those who have heard it a thousand times, but offline practice of a flight which is highly dependent on radio communications has little value, and in some cases, negative training value.

Understand that ATC can give you a range of pattern entries. Be comfortable entering on any leg of the pattern (this is a necessary skill of any VFR pilot), and then you're good to go to fly into any towered airport under VFR.

The P3D ATIS also doesn't likely understand that SBP remains using rwy 29 until there is a 5kt tailwind component. I'm not sure what the wind was a the time you were flying, but I am actually yet to see SBP go to a runway 11 configuration for wind-related reasons. Let's say the wind was 110 @4. P3D ATIS suddenly turns the boat around at the last second and now you're scrambling to change to another runway, with zero guidance from anyone at a towered field. In the real world (and on PE), the runway configuration wouldn't have changed, and if it did, the tower would've told you how to maneuver to enter the pattern for rwy 11.

Hope this helps!

For the 'what if this was a non-towered field or tower was closed' situation, here's what I would do. If the wind shift did warrant the changing of runways, I would fly a crosswind over the departure end of the runway and turn onto a downwind with a normal turn. Forget the 270. Also, the downwind leg has no set distance from the field, can be one mile, can be 1/2 a mile. So if the terrain was a little close for comfort I would have no qualms bringing the downwind leg in a little.

As Keith said, with the Tower open, the wind would have to shift quite a bit for ATC to switch runways on you. I'm curious what the winds actually were? If it was a direct crosswind I would just stay with the plan of 29 and call it a day...

Anyways, welcome to PE!

Keith Smith wrote:Welcome to PE!

The correct thing to do in the event of a change in runway assignment at a towered airport is to comply with the pattern entry instruction given by the tower. It's been said many times in the forum, so apologies to those who have heard it a thousand times, but offline practice of a flight which is highly dependent on radio communications has little value, and in some cases, negative training value.

Understand that ATC can give you a range of pattern entries. Be comfortable entering on any leg of the pattern (this is a necessary skill of any VFR pilot), and then you're good to go to fly into any towered airport under VFR.

The P3D ATIS also doesn't likely understand that SBP remains using rwy 29 until there is a 5kt tailwind component. I'm not sure what the wind was a the time you were flying, but I am actually yet to see SBP go to a runway 11 configuration for wind-related reasons. Let's say the wind was 110 @4. P3D ATIS suddenly turns the boat around at the last second and now you're scrambling to change to another runway, with zero guidance from anyone at a towered field. In the real world (and on PE), the runway configuration wouldn't have changed, and if it did, the tower would've told you how to maneuver to enter the pattern for rwy 11.

Hope this helps!

Hi Keith

Many thanks for the explanation, I will give this a shot online.

jiva602 wrote:Hello,

I am quite new to flight sim as well and I know you will get some expert advice on this from the pros but, based on my brief experience here on PE, and given your position and intentions, I would be shocked if the controller didn't give you either left base for 29 or right downwind for 11.

One of my first eye opening experiences here on PE happened while contacting a tower and then realizing that the controller can give you any entry they deem fit or best at that moment, regardless of standard pattern direction of the desired runway, and will give you that instruction well before you get there (when you make that call from outside the airspace)

Good to hear that we are in safe hands

zerofay32 wrote:For the 'what if this was a non-towered field or tower was closed' situation, here's what I would do. If the wind shift did warrant the changing of runways, I would fly a crosswind over the departure end of the runway and turn onto a downwind with a normal turn. Forget the 270. Also, the downwind leg has no set distance from the field, can be one mile, can be 1/2 a mile. So if the terrain was a little close for comfort I would have no qualms bringing the downwind leg in a little.

As Keith said, with the Tower open, the wind would have to shift quite a bit for ATC to switch runways on you. I'm curious what the winds actually were? If it was a direct crosswind I would just stay with the plan of 29 and call it a day...

Anyways, welcome to PE!

Thanks for the response, I have been unable to find the change of wind direction is ASN historical weather, but thank you for the advice.

Ross Lloyd wrote:

jiva602 wrote:Hello,

I am quite new to flight sim as well and I know you will get some expert advice on this from the pros but, based on my brief experience here on PE, and given your position and intentions, I would be shocked if the controller didn't give you either left base for 29 or right downwind for 11.

One of my first eye opening experiences here on PE happened while contacting a tower and then realizing that the controller can give you any entry they deem fit or best at that moment, regardless of standard pattern direction of the desired runway, and will give you that instruction well before you get there (when you make that call from outside the airspace)

Good to hear that we are in safe hands

Yes, we are indeed. Yet another lesson I have learned: ATC is in place to help us, not police us