PilotEdge Forums

Can you please provide some feedback on what I did wrong on RNAV RWY 14 approach into KHII?

Starting Info:

Flight: KGCN to KHII
Type: IFR
Route: PARKS4 PGS V208 EED
Altitude: 10,000
Call Sign: N712RA
PE URL: http://peaware.pilotedge.net/flight.cfm?id=402558

Play by Play
1. Departed VFR
2. Picked up IFR clearance at 10,000 20 miles west of KGCN
3. Around the PATOK fix I informed LA Center that I would like to request RNAV 14 for KHII.
4. Shortly after PATOK I was told I was "cleared for the RNAV 14 approach".
5. I immediately began my descent to 5,000 feet heading directly for EED the IAF for the procedure.
****Here's the issue****
6. Just shy of reaching 5,000 feet (~5100ft) I was told to check my altitude immediately and that I should have crossed EED at 9,000 feet
7. I disputed this but ultimately was told to send a request somewhere in PE for clarification (can't remember, was stressed and chose to "Fly the airplane")
8. After turning towards PEYON (FAF) I had the field in sight and cancelled IFR.
The rest was uneventful...

Please help me understand step 6.

Sincerely,

Shane Thomas

The MEA until EED is 9000. You can not start descending to 5000 until A.) you ask for lower from ATC, the MVA may be lower than 9000. Or B.) you are established in the Hold-in-Lieu-of-Procedure turn or rather in this case, just the hold itself since its a direct entry. You can't descend lower because you not on the approach until you reach EED.

Did the controller give a crossing altitude when they cleared you for the approach?

The controller did not give me a crossing altitude. And I guess honestly that is where the confusion was. I did an approach to another airport before was when I was "cleared for the approach" with no given crossing altitude. For clarification I asked if that meant descend at Pilot's discretion. The controller told me yes that's what it means. I used that experience here and got burned.

With no crossing altitude your stuck at the MEA until either on the approach, or if you ask for lower and they can give it.

EDIT: once within 25 nm of rwy 14 you can actually descend to 8300 as per the chart MSA, but you cant get lower until you get to EED.

I guess I need to study more Thanks for your help.

The controller was correct. You are misinterpreting the requirement for a crossing instruction. It is only required until you are "established on a published route or segment of the approach."

So, if you were direct EED on a random route (not on an airways or STAR, for example), then the controller would've been required to say, "cross EED at or above [minimum instrument altitude], cleared approach."

However, you WERE on a published route (V208). Hence, no crossing restriction required. The approach clearance permits you to drop to the MEA for the approach, and then per the published altitudes on the approach once at the IAF or feeder. As you might imagine, we hit this pretty hard during the free workshops on approaches as it's a frequently misunderstood topic.

Great feedback Keith! This is why I love PE so much. Great opportunity to learn.