Hi guys,
Excited to be here! Long time simmer, New to Pilotedge....Was drawn in by their claim that they were different from Vatsim in that all controllers weren't all on the same freq? Listened tonight and it seemed John Wayne tower was serving as a single controller for everything? Same guy for everything....Soooo, what is different? Earlier, I logged on for a practice flight over at Oceano and there was no controller available at San Luis Obispo. Tried it twice....No answer....Hmmm...Havent' payed yet.....Worth it? I do like the live ATC aspect tho....X-plane is a true ghost-town without it...And I am honestly interested in Pilotedge for the educational aspect most of all....
New to Pilotedge..Different than Vatsim?
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Kyle.Sanders
- Posts: 819
- Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:13 pm
Re: New to Pilotedge..Different than Vatsim?
https://www.pilotedge.net/pages/compari ... r-networks
Consider doing the first flight: https://www.pilotedge.net/pages/first-flight
Many that come from VATSIM expect the frequencies to be provided to them... in the real world you have to look it all up on the FAA charts... well... dig them out. That's how's it's done here.
Hope you have a great experience!
Also try the free video workshops and pilot rating system. They will help a lot!
Consider doing the first flight: https://www.pilotedge.net/pages/first-flight
Many that come from VATSIM expect the frequencies to be provided to them... in the real world you have to look it all up on the FAA charts... well... dig them out. That's how's it's done here.
Hope you have a great experience!
Also try the free video workshops and pilot rating system. They will help a lot!
Kyle Sanders
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Keith Smith
- Posts: 9939
- Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:38 pm
- Location: Pompton Plains, NJ
- Contact:
Re: New to Pilotedge..Different than Vatsim?
Hi there, welcome to PilotEdge. I can't promise an unbiased answer here as most forum members are PilotEdge subscribers (it is the PE forum, after all). The company has been in business for 5 1/2 years. If the service wasn't worth it to a significant number of people, we wouldn't have been able to remain open for long.
I don't have an answer as to why you weren't able to reach San Luis tower, it's one of our busiest fields since several training program flights are based there. It's typically staffed by the same person who is working all the other towers, so it's unlikely there was something going on which would prevent you reaching them while still being able to reach other towers. If you continue to have an issue reaching that position, let us know at support@pilotedge.net.
We don't claim that there is a different controller on every freq. That would require real world staffing levels (literally hundreds of people on the scope to cover ZLA alone). What we offer is ATC presence from 8am-11pm Pacfic, 7 days a week (with a couple of days off for major holidays). There's also no controller list, so you are dialing the real world frequency to reach the desired facility. You will be changing frequencies many times during most flights (clearance, ground, tower, several departure freqs or enroute freqs, then more approach freqs, then tower at the destination). The workload matches the real world (for the most part) in terms of freq changes.
The fact that it might be the same person working the next freq is not relevant from a workload standpoint, the controllers do a great job of isolating their roles. For example, if you call the tower for taxi instead of ground, they'll say, "you're with tower, contact ground," even though ground is potentially the same person.
Note that ZLA itself does have 2 controllers online at times, and that Western US is covered by a separate controller, so it's not uncommon for there to be 3 people handling the traffic. During events, that number increases significantly as we provide staffing for specific airports during those events.
The system can scale up or down in terms of how many controllers are online, all while being relatively transparent to the users. You just tune the real world freq and someone will reply (your SBP issue notwithstanding).
One thing to know is that we use a system of repeaters on the ground and tower freqs to reduce the number of blocks that occur on those freqs. That means that if you're tuned to a tower or ground freq, you'll hear other pilots who are on a ground or tower freq within ZLA (or Western US, as appropriate). That doesn't happen on the approach or center freqs, though, you'll only hear pilots who are on your freq and within range (like real world).
There other differences, too, such as drone traffic filling the skies in ZLA and voice CTAF for non-towered operations.
I don't have an answer as to why you weren't able to reach San Luis tower, it's one of our busiest fields since several training program flights are based there. It's typically staffed by the same person who is working all the other towers, so it's unlikely there was something going on which would prevent you reaching them while still being able to reach other towers. If you continue to have an issue reaching that position, let us know at support@pilotedge.net.
We don't claim that there is a different controller on every freq. That would require real world staffing levels (literally hundreds of people on the scope to cover ZLA alone). What we offer is ATC presence from 8am-11pm Pacfic, 7 days a week (with a couple of days off for major holidays). There's also no controller list, so you are dialing the real world frequency to reach the desired facility. You will be changing frequencies many times during most flights (clearance, ground, tower, several departure freqs or enroute freqs, then more approach freqs, then tower at the destination). The workload matches the real world (for the most part) in terms of freq changes.
The fact that it might be the same person working the next freq is not relevant from a workload standpoint, the controllers do a great job of isolating their roles. For example, if you call the tower for taxi instead of ground, they'll say, "you're with tower, contact ground," even though ground is potentially the same person.
Note that ZLA itself does have 2 controllers online at times, and that Western US is covered by a separate controller, so it's not uncommon for there to be 3 people handling the traffic. During events, that number increases significantly as we provide staffing for specific airports during those events.
The system can scale up or down in terms of how many controllers are online, all while being relatively transparent to the users. You just tune the real world freq and someone will reply (your SBP issue notwithstanding).
One thing to know is that we use a system of repeaters on the ground and tower freqs to reduce the number of blocks that occur on those freqs. That means that if you're tuned to a tower or ground freq, you'll hear other pilots who are on a ground or tower freq within ZLA (or Western US, as appropriate). That doesn't happen on the approach or center freqs, though, you'll only hear pilots who are on your freq and within range (like real world).
There other differences, too, such as drone traffic filling the skies in ZLA and voice CTAF for non-towered operations.
Re: New to Pilotedge..Different than Vatsim?
Hi and welcome.
In my experience the big difference is guaranteed professional ATC coverage.
My limited trips on VATSIM have produced frustration near half the time;
On approach and tower switches off.
One busy airport fully staffed but nowhere to go.
Signed in to an 'event' 45 mins before end time. Filed flight plan and called for clearance and then heard them disconnect!
Cross The Pond and some sessions look great but on average I've been very disappointed on VATSIM.
On Pilotedge however the ATC is there when you need it. I'd prefer a little more background chatter but I'm in the UK so usually fly outside peak hours - so the repeater system helps break the silence.
Watch the videos, work through the exams, try the alphabet challenge or meander around the expansion area hidden gems -ATC will be there for you when needed - and keep you safe and legal.
In my experience the big difference is guaranteed professional ATC coverage.
My limited trips on VATSIM have produced frustration near half the time;
On approach and tower switches off.
One busy airport fully staffed but nowhere to go.
Signed in to an 'event' 45 mins before end time. Filed flight plan and called for clearance and then heard them disconnect!
Cross The Pond and some sessions look great but on average I've been very disappointed on VATSIM.
On Pilotedge however the ATC is there when you need it. I'd prefer a little more background chatter but I'm in the UK so usually fly outside peak hours - so the repeater system helps break the silence.
Watch the videos, work through the exams, try the alphabet challenge or meander around the expansion area hidden gems -ATC will be there for you when needed - and keep you safe and legal.
Dean33
UK P3DV4 Simmer
Pilotedge - I11, CAT11, A-Z (ZLA), A-Z (WUS)
Gigabyte P57v7 CF2 17.3" laptop. Kaby Lake i7 7700HQ CPU (average 3.4mhz). GTX 1070 8mb, 16 GB of DDR4-2400 RAM, SSD Samsung 970 Evo 500GB M.2 NVMe, 1TB HDD 7200.
UK P3DV4 Simmer
Pilotedge - I11, CAT11, A-Z (ZLA), A-Z (WUS)
Gigabyte P57v7 CF2 17.3" laptop. Kaby Lake i7 7700HQ CPU (average 3.4mhz). GTX 1070 8mb, 16 GB of DDR4-2400 RAM, SSD Samsung 970 Evo 500GB M.2 NVMe, 1TB HDD 7200.
Re: New to Pilotedge..Different than Vatsim?
Awesome!! Thanks for the help. I look forward to getting into the air with you'all. Pilot Edge seems like a great idea. I always felt that the others were too "clunky" in the setup and hoops you had to jump through to even get started. What an improvement here!! And I like the compressed idea, so you're guaranteed to be flying in and around other folks....Again, Thanks for the insight!!
Regards,
Tony P.
Regards,
Tony P.
Re: New to Pilotedge..Different than Vatsim?
PE is a game changer, Tony. Welcome and enjoy.
BFG - N15JG on PE
http://www.ontheglideslope.net
http://www.ontheglideslope.net
Re: New to Pilotedge..Different than Vatsim?
Hi! ... long time vatsimmer, PEer, FSXer/P3Der/XPer, real world pilot and controller here.
For me the game changer with PE is realism. The workload PE adds brings the realism right on up. A lot of sim pilots think they are so cool, all their hardware and charts, and then they fly offline with software... meh. Try doing all that but with a live human being working you on a scope. It's awesome. Additionally, PE handles VFR extremely well. I've had some great experiences with vatsim but the majority are when I'm flying a tubeliner IFR. You can fly anything on PE, IFR or VFR (or SVFR lol) and the controllers are professional and will handle you per USA FAA regulations.
Enjoy.
For me the game changer with PE is realism. The workload PE adds brings the realism right on up. A lot of sim pilots think they are so cool, all their hardware and charts, and then they fly offline with software... meh. Try doing all that but with a live human being working you on a scope. It's awesome. Additionally, PE handles VFR extremely well. I've had some great experiences with vatsim but the majority are when I'm flying a tubeliner IFR. You can fly anything on PE, IFR or VFR (or SVFR lol) and the controllers are professional and will handle you per USA FAA regulations.
Enjoy.
PE ID: 29
FAA ATCS
FAA PPL ASEL
FAA ATCS
FAA PPL ASEL
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Keith Smith
- Posts: 9939
- Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:38 pm
- Location: Pompton Plains, NJ
- Contact:
Re: New to Pilotedge..Different than Vatsim?
OP,
Ryan is a r/w controller, so that's some fairly high praise regarding the fidelity of the network.
I neglected to mention that one of the significant advantages of PE is the community, btw. Our Discord and forum are full of friendly, enthusiastic and highly experienced simmers/pilots/controllers who are willing to help. It's generally drama-free zone unlike most aviation forums.
Ryan is a r/w controller, so that's some fairly high praise regarding the fidelity of the network.
I neglected to mention that one of the significant advantages of PE is the community, btw. Our Discord and forum are full of friendly, enthusiastic and highly experienced simmers/pilots/controllers who are willing to help. It's generally drama-free zone unlike most aviation forums.
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Aviatorbja
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:24 pm
- Location: Plymouth, MI - USA
Re: New to Pilotedge..Different than Vatsim?
I'm going to chime in here too...
As an instrument-rated commercial pilot and former CFI, I can tell you that IF you can function with ATC on pilot edge for either VFR and IFR flights, you will be able to function with ATC in the real world. There are NO operational or procedural differences between PE and RW air traffic control. I've never used VATSIM, but from the video's i've seen on YouTube, there are several areas where it is not the same as real world. Pilot Edge even offers unique services like local IFR, no-gyro vectors, and proper handling of emergency procedures.
The very first time I flew an IFR flight on PE, I did not consult any PE training documents or watch any videos. I just did it exactly the same way I would do it in the real world, and it worked fine.
While hearing the same voice on multiple frequencies may seem unrealistic to the casual observer, the way this is handled in PE is actually very realistic and you will quickly forget that you are talking to the same person. It does not diminish from the immersion of the ATC experience.
Regards,
As an instrument-rated commercial pilot and former CFI, I can tell you that IF you can function with ATC on pilot edge for either VFR and IFR flights, you will be able to function with ATC in the real world. There are NO operational or procedural differences between PE and RW air traffic control. I've never used VATSIM, but from the video's i've seen on YouTube, there are several areas where it is not the same as real world. Pilot Edge even offers unique services like local IFR, no-gyro vectors, and proper handling of emergency procedures.
The very first time I flew an IFR flight on PE, I did not consult any PE training documents or watch any videos. I just did it exactly the same way I would do it in the real world, and it worked fine.
While hearing the same voice on multiple frequencies may seem unrealistic to the casual observer, the way this is handled in PE is actually very realistic and you will quickly forget that you are talking to the same person. It does not diminish from the immersion of the ATC experience.
Regards,
Brian Andonian
R/W: SEL, Commercial, CFI (expired)
Flight sim: Lancair Legacy, Turbine Duke N723BA
R/W: SEL, Commercial, CFI (expired)
Flight sim: Lancair Legacy, Turbine Duke N723BA
Re: New to Pilotedge..Different than Vatsim?
As a former VATSIM ATM I would say that sums it up.Aviatorbja wrote:IIF you can function with ATC on pilot edge for either VFR and IFR flights, you will be able to function with ATC in the real world. There are NO operational or procedural differences between PE and RW air traffic control.
VATSIM's goal is to have minimal barriers to entry and welcome all to participate regardless of skill or knowledge level. Here at PE, the goal is to give pilots a place to practice (or even learn) flying within those barriers you would find in the real world. And the controllers are great!
JX
*disclaimer: I am one of the controllers....