Stepping on each other without knowing it

[bushpilot]

This afternoon I was preparing for pattern work out of John Wayne airport, called for ground, and the poor ATC was having us crawl all over each other. Being on different frequencies, we couldn't hear each other, but he was having a painful time dealing with ground and at least 2 other frequencies, SOCAL being one of them. He commented several times that we were stepping on each other, but we had no way of knowing that. Is there a way we can no when comms are clear?

[Kyle.Sanders]

1. hear the ATC give instructions or a clearance and then read that clearance back in your head. Once you are done, then key up with your transmission.
2. If that doesn't work, try using the Pilot Receiver on another computer and click the box for GND, TWR, APP or CTR until you hear that controller. Now you will be able to hear all transmissions that controller can hear (and then some because the receiver doesn't take into account Tx/Rx station locations if I remember correctly.)

Edit- sometimes this is a good thing. Many times in real world, you will hear a controller working multiple frequencies and you will be able to hear that controller but not the other pilots. "The Strugle Is Real" type thing.

[bushpilot]

Thanks Kyle. I was trying to give pause each time I heard the controller give instructions, but it didn't seem to help the guy. I'll try one of these techniques.

[stevekirks]

I hadn't thought about the receiver trick. I'll have it ready the next time this happens.

to the OP--I use Kyle trick of the readback in my head

[Marcus Becker]

I would be cautious about using the receiver. Many times the echo will cause usage of more radio time because as you talk the echo will either cause you confusion or make your transmission unreadable if the volume is loud enough to be picked up by your mic. Honestly, just try your best and if it happens, it happens.

[stealthbob]

I think controllers get a little frustrated when peeps pop in right after they give a direction to a pilot without waiting for the expected response.

Personally I wait for the simple controller commands that I know should have a short read back by the receiving pilot..pause the appropriate time then mic in.

[Marcus Becker]

I think controllers get a little frustrated when peeps pop in right after they give a direction to a pilot without waiting for the expected response.

Personally I wait for the simple controller commands that I know should have a short read back by the receiving pilot..pause the appropriate time then mic in.

Bingo.

[Kevin_atc]

just try your best and if it happens, it happens.

Exactly. Just do your thing, people. We're so good that it doesn't even phase us! Bring it on!

[rtataryn]

just try your best and if it happens, it happens.

Exactly. Just do your thing, people. We're so good that it doesn't even phase us! Bring it on!

For sure. Watching you guys work is incredible to put it mildly. Kevin, your twitch videos are eye opening to watch from a pilot's perspective to see what you guys juggle. I think seeing things from your side will make a pilot a lot more careful about when to press the mic and keeping transmissions concise.

That said, when even when you anticipate a lull, if it's busy it can be a challenge to not step on someone when you don't hear all the other traffic. Sometimes I'll go back and listen to the ATC recording of my flight and hear myself stepping on another's transmission (and cringe), but I had no idea I did that when I was actually flying.

Rod

[Keith Smith]

In the past, if there was one controller online, you'd hear all of the transmissions for every pilot if they were on an ATC frequency. This was eventually changed so that the repeaters only exist on the ground and tower frequencies where blocks are most likely to happen.

Single controller operations still pose a challenge in this regard, but the advice given here is mostly right. Just listen and do your best. Many of the blocks that occur are entirely avoidable, it's just that people sometimes interpret silence as nothing going on, rather that taking into account the fact that the controller might have just issued a clearance to another pilot. It's reasonable to assume that the pilot is now reading it back.

Some blocks are unavoidable with certain staffing configurations nad traffic levels. If we can eventually grow out of single controller ops, that will go a long way.

Lastly, to the extent that pilots can make brief, efficient radio calls, that will also help reduce the congestion.