LAX bravo transitions without VHF nav equipment

[Matthias Geiss]

I'd like to fly the Antonov AN-2 on the network at some point, but the plane doesn't have VHF nav radios.

What is the standard policy for transitions through the LAX bravo when one can't follow the published routes because of being unable to track VOR radials? E.g., could I request to follow the coastline at an assigned altitude?

[Keith Smith]

Some of the routes have visual landmarks associated with them, such as the Mini Route. Otherwise, you could try to coordinate something with the controller and workload permitting, you'll probably be given heading to fly for the inbound and outbound legs.

[Matthias Geiss]

Thanks Keith! I need to check if the visual landmarks are available in my sim/scnerey and if they are placed more ore less correctly.
But I guess I should nonetheless inform ATC that I don't have appropriate nav equipment on board, even if I am able to follow the route via landmarks.

[Keith Smith]

That said, I suspect the mini-route might be the only one with landmarks, the others are likely to be based on radials. The mini-route isn't an option for a turboprop or jet aircraft if memory serves.

[svilenv]

The published SFRA transition allows considerable lateral freedom and provisions for overtaking other a/c: have a look at the lateral limits depiction and description on the Los Angeles TAC chart. Definitely usable without nav equipment.

[Peter Grey]

The mini-route isn't an option for a turboprop or jet aircraft if memory serves.

Turboprop's are allowed on the miniroute, only turbojets are restricted from the minirotue and SFRA.

The published SFRA transition allows considerable lateral freedom and provisions for overtaking other a/c: have a look at the lateral limits depiction and description on the Los Angeles TAC chart. Definitely usable without nav equipment.

Yes but of questionable legality.

The chart makes this specific requirement: "The pilot shall operate on the SMO VOR 132 radial". That's hard to do without a VOR receiver. I suppose if you can do that without a VOR receiver you are good, but if you mess it up the lack of VOR onboard would be held against you I imagine.

I'll also mention that the Hollywook park route makes mention of a "no radio" route for if VNY is out of service:

Note: If VNY VOR is out of service navigate visually along a line between the Van Nuys Airport, Hollywood Park, and Queen Mary, or request radar vectors.

[NameCoin]

I remember, perhaps within the past year, that SMO was actually down for an extended period of time. The Class B transitions defined by it were either closed or required GPS equipment in order to use them. I believe the Mini Route and Special Flight Rules Area were affected. If there is a way to access historical NOTAMs, it could more definitively answer the question of this thread.

Found it from March 2015:

AIRSPACE LOS ANGELES VFR SPECIAL FLIGHT RULES AREA NOT AVBL EXCEPT FOR AIRCRAFT EQUIPPED WITH SUITABLE RNAV SYSTEM. SMO VOR/DME OUT OF SERVICE. 1503152100-1503172359

CA..ROUTE LOS ANGELES INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, LOS ANGELES, CA. LAX VFR MINI ROUTE LAX VFR MINI ROUTE NA DUE TO SMO VOR OUTAGE 1503152100-1503172359

[Matthias Geiss]

Thanks guys!
So I guess I'll have at least three options:
- Ask for vectors or a visual transition, workload permitting
- Just avoid the bravo
- Add the standard GPS as a popup panel to the plane, just like you would probably put a handheld GPS in the cockpit nowadays

[jtek]

I remember, perhaps within the past year, that SMO was actually down for an extended period of time. The Class B transitions defined by it were either closed or required GPS equipment in order to use them. I believe the Mini Route and Special Flight Rules Area were affected. If there is a way to access historical NOTAMs, it could more definitively answer the question of this thread.

Found it from March 2015:

AIRSPACE LOS ANGELES VFR SPECIAL FLIGHT RULES AREA NOT AVBL EXCEPT FOR AIRCRAFT EQUIPPED WITH SUITABLE RNAV SYSTEM. SMO VOR/DME OUT OF SERVICE. 1503152100-1503172359

CA..ROUTE LOS ANGELES INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, LOS ANGELES, CA. LAX VFR MINI ROUTE LAX VFR MINI ROUTE NA DUE TO SMO VOR OUTAGE 1503152100-1503172359

I remember that. I also remember thinking how dumb it was that SFRA was allowed with a "suitable RNAV system", but the mini route was just plain offline, when not only is the mini route perfectly flyable with a GPS, it's actually *easier* than the SFRA to fly with a GPS because there are two waypoints that can be entered into a GPS flight plan (SMO and VPLSR), whereas the SFRA requires going into OBS mode.

Somewhat related: the standard IFR departure procedure out of SMO is: "fly runway heading, upon reaching the LAX 315 radial, turn to a heading of 250". A few years ago, the LAX VOR was out of service for a few days, so SMO ground was asking everybody getting an IFR clearance if they had a suitable GPS that could identify radials. Everyone I happened to hear getting their clearance that day answered "yes", so I didn't get to hear what they would have said if the answer was "no"--probably just an alternate set of instructions.

[NameCoin]

Thanks guys!
So I guess I'll have at least three options:
...
- Add the standard GPS as a popup panel to the plane, just like you would probably put a handheld GPS in the cockpit nowadays

I'm not sure if you were implying this, but handheld or tablet GPS devices are not suitable navigation equipment and are for reference only, though obviously it's fine in the simulator. Portable GPS receivers generally do not have any type of integrity assurance, so there is no way to know if you are getting the correct navigation solution, which is considered hazardous in aviation.