If I wanted to launch an orbital vehicle from the Mojave Spaceport, essentially just rocketing off either R12 or R30 and climbing at about 40 degrees pitch. You would not be in a great position to be vectored. Any course deviations means less fuel to make orbit.
How would you get a clearance for something like that? Rutan probably had a special clearance for the air drop, but that's way above any controlled air space. Leaving Mojave you zip thru Edwards and leave sonic booms over a couple of towns. If Mojave were located in SoCal and the launch path put it through class B airspace, what would be the special considerations?
This really isn't pie in the sky stuff. Not anymore. Not if you have the cash.
Special-Special IFR clearance?
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Keith Smith
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Re: Special-Special IFR clearance?
I assume in the real world that the airspace is sanitized and control of the airspace from the surface to FL600 (normally handled by ATC) is delegated to a government body other than ATC. The pilots would then spend their flight talking to THAT entity, and that entity alone.
Since we're not currently doing that, and never will be doing that, this would be handled like any other IFR departure. You could file for FL600 and file a fix or VOR as the clearance limit. ATC would provide separation through the climb into the flight levels, just like normal, and then approaching FL600, they'd cut you loose and you'd be on your own. You could then climb above FL600 and do anything you want for as long as you want. Then, when you're ready to come back down, you'd establish contact with ATC prior to descending below FL600 and receive a new clearance to your destination.
I tinkered with re-entry stuff in XP5 about 12 years ago...I was aiming to land on the east coast...overshot slightly, and ended up in Malta. If you've got it worked out and can comply with ATC instructions and routing on the way up and the way down, though, then have at it.
The only downside is that the online map on the web site doesn't function as we intended once people are outside of the US. The scale ends up wrong because it's trying to fit everyone into a single view. For that reason, among others, once you're in orbit, if you plan on hanging out there for any length of time, it would be less detrimental to the network if you were to disconnect, and then reconnect when you were ready to start back down. Since there's zero interaction with our controllers, and zero chance of encountering traffic, I don't see a downside to disconnecting for that portion of the flight.
Not sure what the thread title means, btw. What is Special IFR?
Since we're not currently doing that, and never will be doing that, this would be handled like any other IFR departure. You could file for FL600 and file a fix or VOR as the clearance limit. ATC would provide separation through the climb into the flight levels, just like normal, and then approaching FL600, they'd cut you loose and you'd be on your own. You could then climb above FL600 and do anything you want for as long as you want. Then, when you're ready to come back down, you'd establish contact with ATC prior to descending below FL600 and receive a new clearance to your destination.
I tinkered with re-entry stuff in XP5 about 12 years ago...I was aiming to land on the east coast...overshot slightly, and ended up in Malta. If you've got it worked out and can comply with ATC instructions and routing on the way up and the way down, though, then have at it.
The only downside is that the online map on the web site doesn't function as we intended once people are outside of the US. The scale ends up wrong because it's trying to fit everyone into a single view. For that reason, among others, once you're in orbit, if you plan on hanging out there for any length of time, it would be less detrimental to the network if you were to disconnect, and then reconnect when you were ready to start back down. Since there's zero interaction with our controllers, and zero chance of encountering traffic, I don't see a downside to disconnecting for that portion of the flight.
Not sure what the thread title means, btw. What is Special IFR?
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Alex Stjepanovic
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Re: Special-Special IFR clearance?
Browse for "High Desert Userbook" or something to that extent. That was the name of a thread either in this or in the pilot forum.
I'd have to concur with KS. If there were talking to anyone, they'd most likely be Sport Control(R-2515) and/or Joshua(R-2508). Also considering that as you say, these flights are just starting to become the norm, any US space flights in the past, to the best of my knowledge only talked to their "controller". All airspace protection was done accordingly, and with the exception for the likes of chase, weather probing and runway check flights, there really wasn't much of a need for any kind of an "ATC" as there simply wasn't anyone else around.
I could be wrong, perhaps they might have given some guidance services to those other flights, but it's probably unlikely.
There was an interesting incident during the landing of STS-2. Joe Engle had arranged with EDW ATCT to give him a landing clearance. When he was on short final, you can hear the tower saying something to the extent of "Columbia's cleared to land 22L, wind calm"(Search for STS-2 on youtube for the exact thing). NASA officials were not amused
I'd have to concur with KS. If there were talking to anyone, they'd most likely be Sport Control(R-2515) and/or Joshua(R-2508). Also considering that as you say, these flights are just starting to become the norm, any US space flights in the past, to the best of my knowledge only talked to their "controller". All airspace protection was done accordingly, and with the exception for the likes of chase, weather probing and runway check flights, there really wasn't much of a need for any kind of an "ATC" as there simply wasn't anyone else around.
I could be wrong, perhaps they might have given some guidance services to those other flights, but it's probably unlikely.
There was an interesting incident during the landing of STS-2. Joe Engle had arranged with EDW ATCT to give him a landing clearance. When he was on short final, you can hear the tower saying something to the extent of "Columbia's cleared to land 22L, wind calm"(Search for STS-2 on youtube for the exact thing). NASA officials were not amused
Too much low-alt flying has done you no good Keith!!Keith Smith wrote:I tinkered with re-entry stuff in XP5 about 12 years ago...I was aiming to land on the east coast...overshot slightly, and ended up in Malta.