VOR Airways

[djrisc]

Hi,
I've been studying like crazy, and hopefully you don't mind a bunch of questions from me as they come up. (Maybe I should just start a single thread?)

Anyway, I've been reading more on VOR's. My skill level right now I can comfortably tune in to a VOR, identify it via it's morse code signature, and tune the OBS so that I can fly straight to it.

I've been reading more on airways, and after looking at some charts, I have a question about airways and using them to come up with the best flight plan.

So, let's say I'm traveling VFR from John Wayne (KSNA) to Mc Carran (KLAS). With my limited experience it makes the most sense for me to fly: KSNA -> PDZ (VOR) -> DAG (VOR) -> KLAS

So this would take me on three airways V.442, V.210, and then finally V.394

My question is about these "bends" that occur in airways. If you follow V.442 up to Apple Valley (KPAV) you'll see that all of a sudden V.442 splits off in to a ton of directions, it continues on as V.442 toward the Hector VOR, or you can split off to Daggett via V.210.

Since there is no VOR at this "Interchange", how are you suppose to know using only VOR guidance when to make that transition? Do you just set up the Dagget VOR on NAV2 and once it's in radio range switch over to the Dagget frequency and then swap over to the 214 radial? Wouldn't this effectively have you "miss" that interchange that's listed on the sectional? Or maybe you visually keep an eye out for KPAV knowing it's going to pass to your left and make the change over at that point?

I'm just confused how they can bend airways without placing a VOR at the interchange?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long winded nature of my question!

Brett

[Keith Smith]

Brett,

You can use VOR's to navigate directly to a VOR from a given position, but you can also intercept a specific course to/from the VOR. Victor airways are based on radials to/from VOR's. It's possible to have a dogleg that is seemingly floating in space, but in reality, the dogleg is just the intersection of two radials.

VORs are all about course tracking and interception, a vital skill even once you start using GPS, too. Definitely spend the time working on this particular subject area, because even as RNAV becomes more common and VORs start going away, the notion of intercepting a specific course to a point (as opposed to present position direct to a point) isn't going away

The V-3 rating involves some radial tracking (for the LAX Bravo transitions). The I-2 rating and I-3 rating involve radial interception, too...check out the intro videos for those, too.

[djrisc]

Thanks Keith,
Yeah, I refuse to fly any plane with GPS yet, as I think it's important for me to master VOR before moving on to it. I want to fully understand all the concepts rather than just skip to GPS and rely on that.

I actually find it a lot more satisfying correctly navigating using VOR than to watch my plane on a map with GPS. (maybe I'm just sick in the head. lol)

I usually close Foreflight when flying to keep myself from "cheating". lol

I understand the concept of following a particular radial tuning the OBS, I guess I just didn't grasp the intersection of radials and how you navigate that way.

Off to read more on this! I'll also check out those videos as those have been a huge help as well.

Thanks again for taking the time.

Brett

[djrisc]

Ohhhhh..

It just dawned on me..

If you use NAV 1 and you are on one radial and then tune NAV 2 to a second VOR's radial, you'd literally fly right in to the radial and you're CDI would center on NAV2, then you know you've hit the "intersection" and can now make the turn to VOR #2 to follow the second radial.

light bulb! lol

Brett

[Keith Smith]

*ding ding ding!!!* You got it.

There's a practical example of setting up for this in the recent video I posted for the flight from BFL to MYF. We're flying the MARIC3 SID with the LHS transition (see PDF attachment). Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVb6S_3qnzc

NAV1 is setup to join the EHF R-196 outbound, NAV2 is setup to join the AVE R-109 outbound. When those two needles come together, ta-da,you're at MARIC. You can also use a single radial and DME to achieve the same thing, which is why the enroute charts are setup the way they are, depicting the mileages at the relevant intersections. The NAV1 radio is hooked up to the HSI, the NAV2 drives the KX-155 unit to the lower right of the HSI.

You don't have to equate GPS with moving map, and "cheating," btw. With a panel-mounted unit like a Garmin 430/530, you can use the unit to numerically show the desired track, ground track, cross track error, ground speed, ETE, etc, with no map at all. That's how I fly my airplane 99.9% of the time in the real world. In that case, it's just like tracking a VOR radial....just more precise. The concept is virtually identical, though.

[djrisc]

Awesome! That video was hugely informative on VOR navigation!

Thanks for all the help and great videos Keith!

Brett

[Keith Smith]

You're welcome. Btw, if you want to see the Garmin 430 page that I was referring to before, check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z02TeOzgMGE, pause it at the 11 sec mark.

Notice I'm just using the GPS system to fly a course as precisely as possible...no map. I have nothing against the map, but it's useless for tracking a course with any kind of precision. A CDI and/or the raw numbers are what you need, so that's what I use. There are other times when I do pull up the map for a few seconds, usually one time when I start getting vectored for an approach to make sure I know where I am and to work out what the controller is likely to do next.

[djrisc]

Great thanks Keith! I'm learning so much I am absolutely loving PilotEdge!

I'll check out that video. Right now I'm really focused on getting down VFR using VOR's to the point where I'm super comfortable with it. (I'm still making lots of mistakes, so I'm trying to get 100% comfortable before trying to take on more.)

I actually have another question about something that came up last night.

So I was flying John Wayne to Ontario, practicing Class C transitions some more. When getting clearance from John Wayne you'll undoubtedly get: "fly heading 330 at or below 2,400"

My question is, when are you free to go back to normal VFR flying? I checked the transcript and it shows the tower saying: "SNA_APP: Piper 2KT, resume own navigation and resume appropriate VFR altitudes"

However in one case I got "maintain VFR" from the departure controller. Is that the same as saying resume navigation or do I still need to hold 330 until told otherwise, should I ask for clarification at that point?

Thanks!

Brett

[Keith Smith]

"fly heading 330" can only be cancelled by "resume own navigation"

"maintain VFR" is a just a reminder from ATC that you're still on the hook for cloud separation requirements. If, for example, there was a big cloud on that 330 heading, the "maintain VFR" would be a nice reminder that you should take control and say, "unable to maintain VFR on the 330 heading, request heading xxx".

"resume own navigation" cancels the heading restriction.

"resume appropriate VFR altitudes" cancels the altitude restriction.

I'm glad you're enjoying the process. That's what this is all about!

[djrisc]

Ok great, thanks again Keith!

Brett