My first flight without GPS (just sharing)

Cyrus
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:33 am
Location: Virginia, USA

My first flight without GPS (just sharing)

Post by Cyrus »

So I wanted to share the rewarding (and educational) experience that I had last night, mainly in the hope that other noobs might benefit, but also because I have a question or two...
  • My intended route here.
  • My actual flight here.
First, the questions...

I'm sure it's come up in a workshop, video, or something that I've read recently, but I got into a bit of a panic last night as I was getting closer to the Delta airspace of KPSP. I'd had Flight Following all the way from Ramona, but hadn't heard anything from SoCal Departure in quite a while, and I just wasn't sure if I should reach out to PSP Tower, or wait for SoCal to hand me off. So I asked ATC, "SoCal Departure, Baron 58E is just outside Palm Springs airspace, requesting handoff to Palm Springs Tower" And a moment later, I was given permission to do so. My question is: did I do the right thing, or should I have just stayed silent on SoCal's freq and waited for handoff?

My other question is about airway altitude. I initially requested 9000 ft for this NE flight (feeling that it probably ought to have been 7500, or 9500, etc.). However, since I was going to fly along V208 between JULIAN and THERMAL, I went with what I thought was the correct altitude for that airway. Perhaps I'm reading the chart wrong (here), but doesn't the "9000" right above the "V208" mean fly that altitude? Well, now I'm wondering if the "Lo" and "Hi" enroute charts are really for IFR only. But if that's the case, then why would it show an "8500" for V460 (just below V208)?

Anyway, here are some random thoughts and take aways from my flight...

First, I need to go back to a single engine! Things happen way too fast for my liking right now in the Baron Twin. I think I'll be dusting off my 182RG for my next flight. I'm just not practiced enough yet for the overly maneuverable (read: less forgiving ) low-wing Baron. The few r/w hours that I flew in a C172, I don't remember having to make constant adjustments [without autopilot], despite best trimming effort. So it's back in the saddle of a high-wing single for the most part, at least while I'm honing my flying and comms skills (might still jump in a Twin or even Learjet now and then for an LAS hop!).

As you can see from the PEaware map, I overshot the THERMAL VOR. I knew that I had for two reasons: First, out of my right window I could see that I was waaaaay past the northern tip of the Salton Sea (a pretty good VFR landmark!). Also, the rising DME numbers *from* THERMAL was a pretty good clue too! ( :oops: ) At that moment I was getting flustered and everything was happening so fast. The pathetic thing is there was very little communications going on at the time, so I can't even blame radio nervousness. Basically, I think I spent way too much time messing with the OBS/HSI, trying desperately to stay on the inbound THERMAL radial and, ironically, I was distracted so much that I overshot it. I was still somewhat panicky during my descent to PSP, and didn't feel comfortable to penetrate the PSP Delta without further comms so, as you can also see, I bought some time and did a little loop (and did I say how much I love PEaware!).

On the bright side, it was totally exhilarating flying without the GPS/moving map (and just using Foreflight on my iPad as a way to view the sectional) - and I thank Keith's recent workshop for making that recommendation. I had originally thought that having GPS and moving map functionality (especially on a separate device) for flight sims was the coolest thing since sliced bread. Now I realize that I'm going to learn essential skills a lot faster without it.

I really thought I was 110% ready to take the V-1, but now I can clearly see that I need a little more practice with the basics before I should attempt it. Two steps forwards, one back, and all that....
-Cyrus Kapadia. A few RW hours in a C172, then a 15 year hiatus. Joined PE in Dec'12, then took a break. Now I'm back, learning fast and loving it. If I'm on, it's usually between 22h and midnight EST with Baron 258E, Skyhawk 176CM or Learjet 66L.
Keith Smith
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Re: My first flight without GPS (just sharing)

Post by Keith Smith »

Great post!! I have to be super-quick with my response, though, sorry...

1) the altitudes you're seeing on the enroute chart are MINIMUM Enroute Altitudes for the airwways. These guarantee terrain and obstacle separation as well as navaid reception required to navigate along the airway. They have close to zero relevance for VFR flight. Low enroute charts are for IFR flying. You should be using TAC, WAC or sectional charts.

2) The strange silence from ATC was a function of you being left out of the briefing during a shift change on our side. So, when the new approach controller came on duty and the old one left, he neglected to mention you to the new controller. Ordinarily, approaching the field, the approach controller would ask if you to report the field in site, then swap you over to the tower. However, there are cases in the real world (and on PE) where you'll need to prompt the controller to let them know you're still alive :)

Congrats on taking the plunge to ditch the GPS/moving map. They really are detrimental to flight training, IMHO, as much as they are fantastic for r/w flying once you're beyond you have completed primary flight training.

The V-2 is a great opportunity to practice this. Check the video we have for the V-2, you'll see what I mean.
Cyrus
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:33 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: My first flight without GPS (just sharing)

Post by Cyrus »

That's perfect, Keith. Thanks!
-Cyrus Kapadia. A few RW hours in a C172, then a 15 year hiatus. Joined PE in Dec'12, then took a break. Now I'm back, learning fast and loving it. If I'm on, it's usually between 22h and midnight EST with Baron 258E, Skyhawk 176CM or Learjet 66L.
Keith Smith
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Re: My first flight without GPS (just sharing)

Post by Keith Smith »

Cyrus, if you're truly to let it all go....try turning off your nav radios (or don't tune a VOR, either works), and fly this route visually, backed up with timing for known approximate ground speeds: http://skyvector.com/?ll=33.34303406845 ... :A.K2.KPSP

If I get a chance, I'll try that flight and will video it at some point as a pilotage example. Give it a shot, though! Look out for the glider around Warner Springs, though, on PE :) (that's not why I picked the route, though).
kullery
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Re: My first flight without GPS (just sharing)

Post by kullery »

If this was over Darlington County, SC, that glider would have been shot down by now:

http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2 ... XB1YlUcWPk
Ken Ullery - PPL-SEL, 1G5
Alex Stjepanovic
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Re: My first flight without GPS (just sharing)

Post by Alex Stjepanovic »

That route looks fun, but if you want some true boring non-GPS challenge, try this: http://peaware.pilotedge.net/flight.cfm?id=21588

That took me 2.5 hours - Man was it boring!! At the same time it was truly fun, cause I made the weather as up to date as I could, and only did some rough TAS, course and time calculations, leaving everything to the actual flight.
Steve Anderson
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Re: My first flight without GPS (just sharing)

Post by Steve Anderson »

For all you IFR pilots out there, try more VFR. It's a hoot and more challenging than one might think when you do it by the book, with real weather, and without GPS. Cyrus, thank you for sharing your experience and questions. Your post has helped me learn more about VFR navigation and ATC procedures.
Cyrus
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:33 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: My first flight without GPS (just sharing)

Post by Cyrus »

Steve Anderson wrote:For all you IFR pilots out there, try more VFR. It's a hoot and more challenging than one might think when you do it by the book, with real weather, and without GPS.
Hey, it'd be kinda funny to have a "No avionics or GPS" fly in/out some time (for VFR noobs). A PEaware map of all that might look like a big plate of spaghetti! :lol:
Steve Anderson wrote:Cyrus, thank you for sharing your experience and questions. Your post has helped me learn more about VFR navigation and ATC procedures.
Wow. No worries, mate. I kinda thought the post was a little self-indulgent at the time, but I'm glad to see it sparked some really useful feedback. I've also learned a lot from the replies and suggestions. Lots of things to try out........
-Cyrus Kapadia. A few RW hours in a C172, then a 15 year hiatus. Joined PE in Dec'12, then took a break. Now I'm back, learning fast and loving it. If I'm on, it's usually between 22h and midnight EST with Baron 258E, Skyhawk 176CM or Learjet 66L.
Keith Smith
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Re: My first flight without GPS (just sharing)

Post by Keith Smith »

The VFR DTP or West/East coast flyouts are a great time to do those, if they're VFR flights. That way, you can talk with other pilots (rather than having flight following) on 123.45, or 122.75 and compare what you're seeing with what they're seeing...but quite honestly, to really hone these skills, I would fly by yourself and nail it. Group fly-ins actually make things more complicated, believe it or not, and it's hard to really learn/study during those events.
Cyrus
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:33 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: My first flight without GPS (just sharing)

Post by Cyrus »

That makes sense, Keith. As long as I've got PE ATC to keep me company, I won't get lonely.

Now, having said that... tonight I'm hoping to wear a slightly smaller learning hat, and just have some unadulterated multi-player PE fun! :D
-Cyrus Kapadia. A few RW hours in a C172, then a 15 year hiatus. Joined PE in Dec'12, then took a break. Now I'm back, learning fast and loving it. If I'm on, it's usually between 22h and midnight EST with Baron 258E, Skyhawk 176CM or Learjet 66L.
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