Resume Own Navigation

[johnbeam]

If inside Class C or D airspace and controller says "resume on navigation maintain VFR" does that mean you can roam about Class C or D airspace at any altitude?
Any insights on this would be great...

Thanks!

[wdhurley]

Here is a great website posted on the FAA website regarding this term.

http://www.faasafety.gov/hottopics.aspx?id=39

The problem is that this "resume own navigation" term is vague and leaves the definition to be interpreted differently by different people. From my little aviation experience, I've had controllers go crazy when I begin my descent after being cleared to "resume own navigation," although that term seems to give me 3 dimensional reign. My solution is always advising the controller of any altitude change. Maybe it's not necessary, but I advise any vfr altitude changes just to avoid any confusion. I actually had a controller on PE last night advise me to "maintain VFR, resume own navigation, and advise of any altitude changes." I thought that was great clear wording.

[johnbeam]

After reading that I see that it means different things to different people? hmmmm..
How about the phrase... Resume own navigation on course... what does on course mean?
Maintain same basic direction (north south east west etc..)

[Keith Smith]

"resume own navigation" means that the controller is no longer vectoring you and any headings that were previously assigned are canceled.

It doesn't permit you to enter any new airspace that you wouldn't normally be able to enter. It changes nothing regarding vertical restrictions. If there was a vertical restriction, it would be canceled with "resume appropriate VFR altitudes."

If you had been told, for example to remain clear of an upcoming Delta airspace while talking to Socal Approach, then you were given a heading, then "resume own navigation," then the instruction to remain clear of the Delta still stands afaik. It's probably best to try to treat airspace penetration, assigned headings, and assigned altitudes as independent entities. The cancellation or introduction of one has little bearing on another.

Similarly, we often say "resume own navigation" and a pilot says, "ok, see ya!" and then we quickly remind them that they should remain on the frequency. So, that's a 4th element that's separate....the radio frequency

[Mark Hargrove]

So being cut loose (from both a lateral and vertical perspective) requires ATC to say "...resume own navigation and appropriate VFR altitudes"? (assuming you're staying with them on frequency).

What about "Cessna 123AB, resume own navigation, radar services terminated, squawk 1200, frequency change approved"? Does cancellation of radar services also release any altitude restrictions you might have been under?

-M.

[wdhurley]

My question to that Keith ( and I have asked this a thousand times and gotten differing answers), If I am flying with flight following at 5500, and I decided I want to descend to 3500, IF there was no altitude restriction placed on me, am i obligated to tell the controller? My first instructor told me to always "request" an altitude change, but controllers I have asked have said there is no reason to even mention an altitude change if there was no altitude restriction placed.

[Anthony Santanastaso]

My question to that Keith ( and I have asked this a thousand times and gotten differing answers), If I am flying with flight following at 5500, and I decided I want to descend to 3500, IF there was no altitude restriction placed on me, am i obligated to tell the controller? My first instructor told me to always "request" an altitude change, but controllers I have asked have said there is no reason to even mention an altitude change if there was no altitude restriction placed.

I think this is dependent upon your local area customs.

As far as the rule, if I'm providing traffic advisories, I'm doing so at whatever altitude your flying at. As long as you are remaining clear of controlled airspace, I wouldn't mind what altitude you're flying. If I did, then I'd tell you and for what reason. For example, if I have IFR traffic on a continuous flow at an altitude lower or higher than yours, I would tell you to maintain VFR at a particular altitude and advise prior to any intended altitude changes.

[rgrazian]

Hi Guys,

I use real world flight following all the time. As a matter of fact, I flew VFR from Fort Worth to San Antonio International on Wednesday afternoon (delivered some auto parts for a friend).

Anthony is correct, customs very by area. Therefore, I play it safe and let ATC know what I'm doing.

I 'advise' changing altitudes when not operating in Bravo, Charlie, or Delta. (technically you don’t have to unless asked to do so, but I do anyway). I 'request' altitude changes when I am in B ,C , & D airspace or working with an approach controller into or out of said airspace. On Wednesday for example, Fort Worth had clear skies. I departed and went up to 8500 because it was really bumpy down low. San Antonio was OVC055. About 45 minutes out of San Antonio I could see the layer ahead and had to get below to maintain VFR. I advised the controller I was going to descend to 4500.
“Lance niner bravo whiskey descending four thousand, five hundred”.
His response was “….altitude pilot’s discretion, maintain VFR”

I always think it’s a good idea to let ATC know what you’re doing because they have the big picture.

p.s. - I had an IFR training flight this morning in full IMC. It was Awesome!

[Keith Smith]

I always think it’s a good idea to let ATC know what you’re doing because they have the big picture.

It's a subtle point, but I do disagree with the conclusion on this one, specifically because, as you said, ATC does have the big picture and the pilots do not.

If there is an occasion where an altitude change could cause an issue (legal separation where it's being provided, or just good ol' common sense of not letting two planes hit each other, even if they're not being separated by ATC), then ATC will say, "advise prior to any altitude changes," or even more aggressive, "suggest maintaining at or [above/below] [altitude] for opposite direction traffic." This is line with what Anthony said.

Take an extreme example where 5 planes have flight following, all relatively spread out (ie, no factor), and the approach controller is trying to vector 4 IFR guys for approaches elsewhere. The VFR guys could take quite a bit of radio time reporting altitude changes (again, an extreme example, but it illustrates the point). It also takes the controller's attention away from what he is actively doing, which is trying to vector those IFR aircraft.

In short, if they have reason to know about your altitude changes, they'll generally let you know.

first instructor told me to always "request" an altitude change

Strong evidence that many instructors are unaware of how to interact with ATC. There are some really bad habits out there, and this is one of them. "Requesting" an altitude change is a red flag. This is right up there with, "any traffic in the area, please advise."

[jtek]

p.s. - I had an IFR training flight this morning in full IMC. It was Awesome!

It's great, isn't it? Before I got my IFR ticket, I used to wake up on sunny days and think, "man, I should go flying today." Now I wake up on overcast days and think that!