What's the Point of Flight Following

[hoser70]

?

Just did a two flights... KPSP - KVNY, KVNY - KSAN

Aircraft all over me, some as close as 1000 feet, yet no call out. Isn't that the point of flight following? Maybe something has changed?

[julio.elizalde]

Keep in mind that generally speaking, VFR flight following is subject to the controller's workload. They will always give priority to IFR aircraft over VFR. VFR aircraft are expected to maintain their own scan at all times. Also, sometimes controllers won't alert you to traffic if they don't believe it's a danger or if it wont converge courses with you. It's all a crap shoot. That's why the FAA really puts such a giant amount of emphasis on VFR pilots maintaining their own visual awareness.

[hoser70]

Keep in mind that generally speaking, VFR flight following is subject to the controller's workload. They will always give priority to IFR aircraft over VFR. VFR aircraft are expected to maintain their own scan at all times. Also, sometimes controllers won't alert you to traffic if they don't believe it's a danger or if it wont converge courses with you. It's all a crap shoot. That's why the FAA really puts such a giant amount of emphasis on VFR pilots maintaining their own visual awareness.

That makes sense. It did seem busy tonight (which is a good thing). However, the controller I asked about it said they don't control your own "AI" traffic, which makes sense, however my only AI traffic is PE injected.

[Peter Grey]

I was controlling tonight for you. It was busy at times for me which may explain a missed traffic call on my end. It is also worth noting that some of the drone aircraft do not have working transponders (to promote see and avoid duties). We generally won't be able to give traffic calls on those targets effectively.

Regarding AI traffic. Some users have had issues with plug-ins also injecting AI traffic into the sim which we can't see and then wondering why we weren't pointing it out. It would seem that isn't the case for you. We obviously can and when we see them do provide traffic advisories for our own drones (but cannot control their flight path).

[hoser70]

Thanks Peter... Everyone is awesome here, so please don't take this post as being critical. I'm more looking for answers or to find out if I have a problem.

[Peter Grey]

No worries, we aren't perfect here so sometimes the answer simply is "oops I didn't see that one".

[hoser70]

No worries, we aren't perfect here so sometimes the answer simply is "oops I didn't see that one".

Well, I'm a big "oops" didn't see the "Bravo" kinda guy...

[Keith Smith]

I've had some busy nights in the past where there was simply too much to do and while I did see traffic that I would've liked to have pointed out (500-1000ft higher or lower) to a flight following participant, there were other calls for IFR traffic that couldn't wait. Since VFR flight following is workload permitting, expect gaps in the service.

I'm sure there were other times where I simply didn't see it, either. The collision alert won't go off if the planes are 1000ft feet apart, so unless i happen to be looking at that piece of airspace at the time, it's easy to miss it.

Traffic levels have been consistently higher over the last 6 weeks than they have been in the past, so I would expect more frequency congestion, more workload, more distraction involving targets over a wide area, and as a result, fewer traffic pointouts for flight following participants.

In case you're wondering how we can 'miss' the situations, it's because we zoom/slew the scope a lot more than a real controller due to the volume of airspace that we work. So, we issue instructions that keep IFR aircraft apart, allowing us to zoom/slew somewhere else and focus our attention for a little while. During that time, the random path of one VFR airplane might cross with the path of a drone, but not close enough to cause a collision alert, hence we miss it.

Happens in real life too. I have had tons of traffic pass me by with 1000ft or less and not heard a word about it when the controller is swamped with IFR.

[hoser70]

I've had some busy nights in the past where there was simply too much to do and while I did see traffic that I would've liked to have pointed out (500-1000ft higher or lower) to a flight following participant, there were other calls for IFR traffic that couldn't wait. Since VFR flight following is workload permitting, expect gaps in the service.

I'm sure there were other times where I simply didn't see it, either. The collision alert won't go off if the planes are 1000ft feet apart, so unless i happen to be looking at that piece of airspace at the time, it's easy to miss it.

Traffic levels have been consistently higher over the last 6 weeks than they have been in the past, so I would expect more frequency congestion, more workload, more distraction involving targets over a wide area, and as a result, fewer traffic pointouts for flight following participants.

In case you're wondering how we can 'miss' the situations, it's because we zoom/slew the scope a lot more than a real controller due to the volume of airspace that we work. So, we issue instructions that keep IFR aircraft apart, allowing us to zoom/slew somewhere else and focus our attention for a little while. During that time, the random path of one VFR airplane might cross with the path of a drone, but not close enough to cause a collision alert, hence we miss it.

Happens in real life too. I have had tons of traffic pass me by with 1000ft or less and not heard a word about it when the controller is swamped with IFR.

I luv everything U just said Mr. Keith...

[Frank Pate]

I use FF quite a bit on PE and really, I am not using it so much for traffic advisories, but for the "oh crap I busted an airspace I shouldnt have". Mostly use it when flying VFR near LAX and San Diego and know I will need to get permission thru an airspace. I've had PE drones buzz past me at the last minute, but that was my bad since my head was in the cockpit looking at maps and VOR needles instead of outside at landmarks. Real VFR pilots will navigate around, but I'm old and slow and I like point to point if I can have it. I dont know about X-Plane, but if you hear a jet or prop sound in your headset with FSX, traffic is closer than they should be and "I" messed up unless they came from behind. (Mostly a Baron58 flyer) I do cheat from time to time VFR and go outside my plane to look around, see the sights and check for landmarks and airports. That is when I get the bigger picture and see whats really around me. I've flown microsoft FS since the first 5 1/4 floppy version came out for IBM PC's. (Giving away my age) X-Plane seems to have a much better flight dynamic for their aircraft which I really enjoy for IFR flight. For VFR, FSX rules with the abundant scenery addons available. Hey, VFR is visual and landmarks are key and sight seeing is what its all about for me expecially in airspace I never flew in before. So both platforms for me have their place. I am a novice Xplane user, and flying VFR is challanging for me in it because the scenery, flight dynamics, and visuals of drone and mulitplayer aircraft look different. But I love X-Plane for IFR flights because the controls for all systems aboard are much more realistic.

I am on a tangent. VFR, means you "see and avoid". If you rely soley on a busy SoCal controller for all traffic avoidance, especially real world, you have better chances at a Las Vegas craps table to be successful. They will do their best, but VFR leaves fate in YOUR hands. I find VFR to be a hoot on PE especially if you really start lookng around outside the window, fly real weather, real time, and avoid the 3000 foot puffy clouds in the Bravo transitions even at night as best as you can. Your flight track will more than likely zigzag as you make your way to your destination even with flight following. IFR SIDs and STARs be damned because your protected if you stay in the zone and ATC will vector you if you completely lose it (and admit it). VFR is open game, a set up for failure if you lose your situational awareness, and ATC will not get you out of trouble unless you are specific on your request that you have no idea where you are and are behind the airplane. And BTW: If you are using FF, a courtesy call to the controller that you see traffic closer than you are comfortable with will help him/her out if they are busy because alerting him/her with that knowledge that you may be in a busy area will bring some focus to you. I've done it in my neck of the woods in New Yorks TRACON more than once with the C-5A's and C130's flying into KSWF during the gulf war and flying down the Hudson river corridor. I have to find a picture my friend in the right seat took when all of a sudden the cockpit when dim because a C-5A flew just a couple of hundred feet above us blocking out the sun as he flew the VOR/DME approach to stewart as I squawked VFR showing off my newly appointed private pilot skills to him. A lonely Cessna 172 has no chance with those guys blowing wind a couple of feet feet above or below you or on final with a wake turbulance advisory on a calm hazy hot and humid day. They will suck you up and spit you out without a hickup. not really, but for drama's sake you get the picture. I cant say enough about VFR flying in a busy area, and PE is as close to realistic to it if you really look around at the drones flying. Your best friend is your eyes, and your best BACKUP will be the controllers you enlist... in that order.