Lost Comms

[David Gilbert]

Been ploughing through the IFR workshops recently and have gathered that a lot of the detail on IFR charts is there as a backup in what to do in a lost comms situation. Is a lost comms situation allowed to be simulated on the network? Seems like one of those situations that you would most like to train for in the simulated world.

[Frank Pate]

Yes, lost comms is handled if you lose your voice connection or if you relay to the controllers that you want to practice it. That is why PE covers the procedures for full approaches, clearances and more in their training programs. Not a bad idea to put it in the comments section if you want to "plan" a lost Comm failure. IF you are VFR, they do not usually read the strips so if you plan it, then you may want to give them a heads up. Sometimes you will hear a controller say something like, "N1234, aircraft 3 miles 12 o'clock altitude unknown and he is not talking to me." (Generally worded so you understand it is not a drone.) Remember, lost comms has a transponder code associated with it. SO unless you have a complete electrical meltdown, it will be handled nicely. If you just don't want to fly procedurally, well, then all bets are off and you may get a slap on the hand.

This is my take on it. I'll find out very soon if my post holds any water.

[hoser70]

Y... Remember, lost comms has a transponder code associated with it...

7600 if you were wondering.

[sellouts]

If you want to unintentionally simulate a lost comms situation fly the X-Plane Carenado Mooney, don't bind a key to the alternator and sit on the ground powered up while waiting for a friend for a decent amount of time. About mid way through your flight you'll lose all comms… not that I'd know from experience.

[Frank Pate]

Ok, so this does bring up a question. Lets make a scenario with an 800 foot overcast IFR flight using a TEC route from KSNA to KSMO.

Clearance as follows: "Fly heading 220, Radar Vectors to Seal Beach VOR then as filed. Climb and maintain 2000, expect 4000 five minutes after departure. Departure frequency 127.2 squawk 7335."

I take off, start my turn at the end of the runway, and am handed over to departure. I'm in the soup, switch the radios and nothing, the radios die. What is my next move if I am in IFR conditions.

This is my thoughts. I will climb to 2000, turn direct to seal beach, .... I'll probably be their in less than 5 minutes. Soooo.... how far out does lower than 4000 feet safely take me and what is the lost comms procedure in this scenario and what are my options especially if it is a complete electrical meltdown? Had to turn off everything because of smoke. A very unlikely scenario, but this example can be taken apart for different segments of flight.

[David Gilbert]

Does anyone know if lost comms is allowed to be simulated on PE? It is something I might consider doing in the future to practice it with other aircraft around.

[Keith Smith]

David, it does put considerable stress on the system. Since you can simulate lost comms by simply flying offline, PE isn't adding much value there.

If you want to proceed online, though, It's probably best to ask if they can accommodate a test of lost comms since it does affect other pilots and the controllers.

[David Gilbert]

David, it does put considerable stress on the system. Since you can simulate lost comms by simply flying offline, PE isn't adding much value there.

If you want to proceed online, though, It's probably best to ask if they can accommodate a test of lost comms since it does affect other pilots and the controllers.

Ok Keith if it puts stress on the system will definitely practice them offline.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

[wmburns]

David, it does put considerable stress on the system. Since you can simulate lost comms by simply flying offline, PE isn't adding much value there.

If you want to proceed online, though, It's probably best to ask if they can accommodate a test of lost comms since it does affect other pilots and the controllers.

Is it reasonable to divide this into two possible paths. One is a unplanned lost comm (say random failures programmed or drained battery) occurs while flying on PE. Two is starting a PE session with the intention of simulating a lost comm situation.

Is it reasonable to say that the unplanned lost comm would be handled on PE as part of the service. Especially since this should be a rare event.

Where as a "planned" lost comm simply wastes resources and is better done offline?

So that I can understand. If you have just taken off IFR and experience a comm failure, isn't the correct action to return to the departure airport?

[Keith Smith]

wmburns, if it's IMC, you should continue to your destination, if you go missed, you should continue to your filed alternate.

If you want to start the flight online, have comms failure midway, then disconnect, that's fine. However, if you continue online, and you're heading to another airport with other inbounds, it's going to be a lot of work for ATC and cause delays for those other aircraft as we have to give you a pretty wide berth, not knowing exactly what you're going to do. Once you lose comms, the training value of the scenario is no longer affected by being on PE or not.

I acknowledge that it is more immersive to start the flight online with comms and lose them midway. My recommendation would be to disconnect after that, unless it has been coordinated otherwise as you won't know what the controller workload is. Comms failures are extremely rare in real life. If ever subscriber tried 3-4 of these per year, we'd be averaging several 'lost comms' cases per day, which doesn't really scale and would negatively affect the network overall.