I have a question when it's comes to an IFR departure from VNY. I want to fly the TEC route from VNY to CRQ. The first WP for that route is TWINE. The DP would have me depart to the east towards DARTs thence... In looking at the SIDS the best option maybe the Newhall 8, but TWINE isn't an approved transition point. On PE Aware, I see others just file the TEC route and it seems ATC diverts them to the SE and eliminates the need to head to TWINE.
I would like to understand if the TEC supersedes the DP. It would appear that way to me. Does the TEC route take terrain into consideration or would ATC keep an AC away from any higher terrain? And if I were to depart from an airport were the SID would coincide with a TEC should I also file the SID or would that be redundant?
Thanks for the insights.
Dave
VNY Departure
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julio.elizalde
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Re: VNY Departure
I'll try to make things simple.
TEC routes are used to facilitate traffic flow between airports in congested airspace like SoCal. (A real world pilot I just met said to me the other day that he gave up flying VFR in LA because of the general congestion of the area). TEC routes are designed to make sure that from the waypoint where you join them to the waypoint where the route ends, you won't have any issues with terrain, like any other good IFR flight plan. Most use a final waypoint that serves as a feeder or initial approach fix for a major instrument approach to the destination airport.
Just about every airport has a departure procedure which serves as a ATC-less means of connecting to that first major IFR waypoint in the area. These are designed to keep you away from terrain and other possible conflicts in the area. They're used constantly at most uncontrolled fields, and at some controlled airports.
At major airports like VNY (which is right on the doorstep of BUR and WHP), while the procedure is safe, it isn't efficient. This is why BUR and VNY share some initial routing out of the area and SIDs to improve efficiency (compare the VNY1 and NUAL8 departures). Many of these departure procedures are intended for faster aircraft like turboprops and turbojets. This is where ATC instructions come in.
Many airports have customary "initial instructions" that are not as inefficient as a departure procedure, but give ATC a lot of flexibility to keep you away from other fast departures while moving you in a direction that will be favorable to you, the airports in the area, and terrain, so that you can join your IFR routing quickly. Each airport has customary departure instructions, and when you have active radar environments, these do replace DP. At airports where radar coverage is poor or where it is too dangerous for you to just fly on a assigned heading, then a departure procedure might be the more customary assignment.
Sometimes, even a TEC routing will mimic a SID, like at SAN. Say the TEC route for SAN-LAX: MZB293R SLI148R SLI. Look at the PEBLE4 and you'll see virtually the same routing. In this scenario, you still file the TEC route, but ATC may amend you to just fly the PEBLE4 DP with the SLI transition for simplicity.
I hope this clarifies things a little.
TEC routes are used to facilitate traffic flow between airports in congested airspace like SoCal. (A real world pilot I just met said to me the other day that he gave up flying VFR in LA because of the general congestion of the area). TEC routes are designed to make sure that from the waypoint where you join them to the waypoint where the route ends, you won't have any issues with terrain, like any other good IFR flight plan. Most use a final waypoint that serves as a feeder or initial approach fix for a major instrument approach to the destination airport.
Just about every airport has a departure procedure which serves as a ATC-less means of connecting to that first major IFR waypoint in the area. These are designed to keep you away from terrain and other possible conflicts in the area. They're used constantly at most uncontrolled fields, and at some controlled airports.
At major airports like VNY (which is right on the doorstep of BUR and WHP), while the procedure is safe, it isn't efficient. This is why BUR and VNY share some initial routing out of the area and SIDs to improve efficiency (compare the VNY1 and NUAL8 departures). Many of these departure procedures are intended for faster aircraft like turboprops and turbojets. This is where ATC instructions come in.
Many airports have customary "initial instructions" that are not as inefficient as a departure procedure, but give ATC a lot of flexibility to keep you away from other fast departures while moving you in a direction that will be favorable to you, the airports in the area, and terrain, so that you can join your IFR routing quickly. Each airport has customary departure instructions, and when you have active radar environments, these do replace DP. At airports where radar coverage is poor or where it is too dangerous for you to just fly on a assigned heading, then a departure procedure might be the more customary assignment.
Sometimes, even a TEC routing will mimic a SID, like at SAN. Say the TEC route for SAN-LAX: MZB293R SLI148R SLI. Look at the PEBLE4 and you'll see virtually the same routing. In this scenario, you still file the TEC route, but ATC may amend you to just fly the PEBLE4 DP with the SLI transition for simplicity.
I hope this clarifies things a little.
Julio Elizalde
PilotEdge Air Traffic Control Specialist & Controller Instructor
PP-ASEL
PilotEdge Air Traffic Control Specialist & Controller Instructor
PP-ASEL
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Keith Smith
- Posts: 9942
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- Location: Pompton Plains, NJ
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Re: VNY Departure
TEC routes are area-to-area specific, they're generally not airport to airport. For example, the TEC route which serves VNY-CRQ also serves BUR-CRQ and WHP-CRQ. You might be issued a SID from VNY or you might not. It's simpler to file the TEC route and let ATC insert whatever local instructions or SIDs they want. You'll never 'go wrong' by filing the TEC route, it's a very reasonable starting point.
If ATC provides headings as part of the initial clearance, you can fly that heading and not hit anything, as long as you're climbing at the requisite 200ft/nm.
Standard instructions out of VNY will have you on a east southeast heading at first. ATC will often you give you a shortcut onto the airway, especially if you're climbing quickly, bypassing TWINE altogether. If you can climb above the LAX arrival stream(s), you're likely to get the shortcut. Otherwise, you might get a delay vector, then the shortcut. It's not often you'll have to go to TWINE.
If ATC provides headings as part of the initial clearance, you can fly that heading and not hit anything, as long as you're climbing at the requisite 200ft/nm.
Standard instructions out of VNY will have you on a east southeast heading at first. ATC will often you give you a shortcut onto the airway, especially if you're climbing quickly, bypassing TWINE altogether. If you can climb above the LAX arrival stream(s), you're likely to get the shortcut. Otherwise, you might get a delay vector, then the shortcut. It's not often you'll have to go to TWINE.
Re: VNY Departure
Julio and Keith,
Thanks for the info. That definitely clarifies things. Having learned to fly in the NE, I never had to use TEC routes so they are still a little foreign but My comfort level is increasing and I sort of prefer them due to the simplicity they add to flight planning.
Thanks for the great explanation!
Dave
Thanks for the info. That definitely clarifies things. Having learned to fly in the NE, I never had to use TEC routes so they are still a little foreign but My comfort level is increasing and I sort of prefer them due to the simplicity they add to flight planning.
Thanks for the great explanation!
Dave
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Keith Smith
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Re: VNY Departure
Dave, you're welcome. The NE does actually have TEC routes, but unlike Socal, they don't have coded names.
Try this, go to the FAA route database: http://www.fly.faa.gov/rmt/nfdc_preferr ... tabase.jsp, and enter this into the bottom 2 fields:
ZNY
ZBW
Click search and see the results that come back, note the TEC routes.
Try this, go to the FAA route database: http://www.fly.faa.gov/rmt/nfdc_preferr ... tabase.jsp, and enter this into the bottom 2 fields:
ZNY
ZBW
Click search and see the results that come back, note the TEC routes.
Re: VNY Departure
Wow! I never realized that there were that many routes around the NE. Thanks Keith. Again, PE comes thru as an excellent resource to master the IFR system. 