Cleared to a DME fix How do I get there? No DME

[wgbergman]

I am flying a /U aircraft. My IFR clearance out of the ATL area is using SOONE as my first fix. SOONE is identified as ATL 166deg/ 35 nm. But how do I get there with out DME on board. Sure radar vectors. But what if I lose coms?

Thanks

[wmburns]

Do you have (2) VOR radios? Do you have an ADF?

One of the ways that comes to mind is to use an intersecting NAVAID. For example 179 degrees to Yates(OP). Or a 129 bearing to Macon (MCN309R) inbound). Or the LGC093R VOR radial.

I'm not sure if plain old fashion leg timing couldn't be used as well.

[David Gilbert]

I think you can identify it from the Yates Ndb 339 radial if you don't have DME.

[wgbergman]

Where are you guys getting those intersecting radials and bearings? I do not see them published anywhere. Don't you need to use established airways to ID fixes?

[Keith Smith]

http://airnav.com/airspace/fix/SOONE only shows the ATL radial. The low enroute only shows the ATL radial. The SID out of ATL only shows the ATL radial.

I would not accept the SID and advise them that you're /U, unable to identify when you're at SOONE. Ded reckoning is only when it's published as part of the procedure afaik. There are pretty strict lengths on those legs, too. The NDB doesn't help since the angle is so shallow. You could overshoot SOONE and not necessarily know it until you were considerably well past it due to the angle with the NDB.

Don't be shy about rejecting the SID, they'll give you an alternate clearance.

[wgbergman]

Thanks. That is what I was thinking but just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something.

[wmburns]

Where are you guys getting those intersecting radials and bearings? I do not see them published anywhere. Don't you need to use established airways to ID fixes?

Have you ever used Skyvector? Great site. Check this out (easier to read on the world low charts).

http://skyvector.com/?ll=32.85436458639 ... F.K7.SOONE

Before Skyvector pilots did this with straight edges and protractors.

Knowing how to do this using paper charts and even estimating the angle is still an important skill. That's why the compass rose is on the charted VOR's.

Keith, I understand why Yates (OP) can't be used because of the shallow angle. But why couldn't MCN, LGC, or Pine Mountain(PIM) be used instead? LaGrange (LGC) is about as close to 90 degrees as it gets. In fact, you can see on the chart that OUSY is also identified by an LGC078R crossing.

Or are some of the crossing fixes outside of a distance limit? LGC is listed as a "H-VORTAC" which should give a coverage distance of 40 nm for altitudes lower than 14,500.

Obviously this assumes the airplane has (2) VOR's. And of course this also assumes already established on ATL166R outbound.

[wgbergman]

I know how to find the location using paper, but I don't think that is allowed or wise for IFR. From what I understand, if it is not charted then it is not tested for accuracy.

[Scott Medeiros]

That is an incorrect clearance for the ATL7 departure. The proper clearance should be "ATL7 departure, radar vectors (first ground based navaid, IE VOR)". The published fixes are the Atlanta departure gates (vector areas), and while you may fly near them, you shouldn't be cleared direct SOONE.

As Keith said, inform ATC you are /U and are unable to accept that clearance.