radial not flyable...lost coms

[falopz]

hi, in case of a non flyable radial flying ifr to ksan, once overhead mzb in the loc rw 27 chart, radial 084 is not BOLD , so is not flyable, i case of lost comms when you pass over mzb, its possible to fly the 084 to douga, then inbound pgy 017 then vydda the intercept the loc?

[Cyrus]

Can you post a Skyvector link with your original/proposed route?

[falopz]

loc dme i-ubr rw 27 the normal loc approach using starting point mzb http://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1410/pdf/00373L27.PDF

[Keith Smith]

since mzb is not an iaf or feeder, you would need to head to an iaf or feeder yourself.

[falopz]

practically speaking if i fly the 084 to go to DOUGA instwead of RYAHH IAF wich both are in the same radial from PGY, i thinks its safer to got to douga wich is farther from mountains,,,,althought is not the IAF

[Peter Grey]

practically speaking if i fly the 084 to go to DOUGA instwead of RYAHH IAF wich both are in the same radial from PGY, i thinks its safer to got to douga wich is farther from mountains,,,,althought is not the IAF

That is not a good idea and here is why:

When the approach was designed it was NOT designed for aircraft to be on the MZB084R then to turn at DOUGA. Imagine an aircraft going 200 Knots making a 110 degree turn. This is going to take some distance. The radius of turn is basically a mile. If you properly figure out your turn lead great you're all set. However, if you mess it up you can end up 2 miles off course. This can bring you dangerously close to terrain.

As a matter of fact this type of turn on this approach is so dangerous it's not even allowed at the RYAHH IAF. Note the note that says "Procedure NA for arrivals at RYAHH on V-66-460-514 eastbound". That's because you can't guarantee terrain clearance on that turn due to mountains to the east.

So you go lost comms, what do you do?

Assuming /A (so you can't just take the RNAV approach). You can't really do the LOC approach safely (as it's not allowed for aircraft eastbound at RYAHH). So you can do the ILS 9 instead (which has a feeder route from MZB). Is it opposite direction? yes. Can you circle to 27? Sure. Will ATC make sure no one hits you in this case? Yes.

Are the minimums higher this way (assuming you land 27)? Yes but not by much (a little over 100'). If it matters that much you can just go straight in to 9, if the wind really doesn't allow for that it's time to go to another airport.

[falopz]

peter awesome response, thanks a lot, yes i did notice that turn little wild,,,,,but when keith sid fly to a fix ryahh is out of question because of the not you explained....

[wmburns]

IMO there may be a couple of things that you are not considering.

During a lost comm situation, ATC needs to have a "clue" where you are going and how you plan to get there. It seems to me that once there's a deviation from published approaches, ATC's job is now harder.

Next what altitude did you plan to fly the segment from MZB at? 4000, 5000, 6000?

Note from the charts that there's an altitude step at RYAHH. This is noted by the break symbol in the V66 airway. The other significance of DOUGA is an altitude step down from 5000 to 4000. It seems to me that if you flew directly to DOUGA, this creates an issue of starting at a safe altitude and then also having enough time to descend to 4000 by VYDDA. Further, if heading directly to DOUGA from MZB, getting the turn just right to ovoid over shoot could be a serious challenge.

I'm not an expert on the FFA regulations but it seems to me that there should be a COMPELLING safety reason to deviate from a published approach.

Edit; was working on my reply while Peter was working on his. IMO Peter's response is better but I was attempting to say some of the same things. Thanks Peter.

Also, would it work to fly the V66 to RYAHH and hold at RYAHH? Would it then be valid to fly the ILS 27 from the hold?