Terror in the Skies - I9 - KLAS-KLAX

[Talan2000]

Pilots,

Better sit down for this one -- somehow leaving Las Vegas I knew I was gonna roll Snake Eyes.

Despite not being, well suuuper familiar with the type, I opted to transition into the B757 from Flight Factor for this flight. Having just plunked down 20Euro for Navigraphs AIRAC subscription I was confident I'd have all the latest SID/STAR and nav data I could desire - and I did. I happily programmed the FMC for the BOACH5.HEC RIIVR2 at FL280 departing 19R, got my cleared as filed (sweet it's great being an ATP!) clearance and told the flight attendants to sit everybody down...

Huh, FMC says "Unable Flight Level" or somesuch. No idea why that popped up surely these turbofans and 125 passengers and 50k lbs of fuel can get up to FL280 - no idea how to overide this so...ignore.

Takeoff was just great except at this point VNAV mode fails with some "perf error"...no problemo LNAV and Set ALT will work just fine for me on the MCP baby..."That was close! "I think as I slam the nose down at 6990 about to blast through the 7000 cap at ROPPR ! Phew better be careful I think as I distractedly play around with the FMC trying to figure out what the heck and YIKES that's 250 ((maybe even 251;) as I'm passing 8000! Slam back the throttle to avoid a speeding ticket flip off auto throttle..this is turning into a handful. Climb! Add back the power set 240 SPD. Auto throttle engage,and just barely scrape across 13000 at BOACH. I glare menacingly at my inflatable Co-pilot Otto, "thanks for nothing!"

Things settle down and I climb right up to FL280 (slowly) as I've kept 240 SPD set (if it aint broke...) wondering which Rwy I'll get to assigned to land on and how to spend the layover in LA...

Get my game face on at HEC knowing things will start to speed up - literally as I go to SPD 280k and descend really early to be at GRAMM at FL180 (Of course, Center was weak and unreadable just then and oh the joy at this point my yoke PTT button decides it will disconnect me for holding it too long while talking..reconnect, rebroadcast my last comms of course the GRAMM restricions!) to confirm...starting to get hectic as the inflatable copilot sleeps off his hangover and VNAV is seemingly untrustworthy.

And then - it really hits the fan - suddenly and for NO reason I can fathom the plane starts a sharp right 180 passing GRAMM when it should be heading to RUSTT -- What the ! I glance in real terror at the FMC and suddenly the the DEST is KLAS! Aaaa! How the heck did that happen? * Thinking maybe I somehow popped into a RTE2 I mash the RTE button but there is no other route! My KLAS-KLAX flight plan is GONE! Craaaap. I snap off autopilot alarms blaring, oh crap, oh crap.

what'smyheadingwhatsmyaltitudewhere's the airway! I've got to get the FMC back No I've got to FLY the Plane But Where's HASBO - the MAP range was set to 10 or 20 and I've got a blank screen staring at me with nothing and 300 or so heading 'alluva' sudden. And of course ATC calls at this point to let me know I'm cleared on the 25L at RIIVR and to report RIIVR. With my best airline captain voice and trying to cover the alarm sounds in the cockpit (for AUTO disconnect) I happily read back...I'm somewhere between GRAMM and RUSTT at FL180ish 280kts

It was a lot scarier inside the cockpit

TerrorintheSkies.JPG (108.76 KiB) Viewed 6416 times

I know what you are thinking I could have just hit alt hold but of course I didn't and I manually flew and had some nice 2000+ 2000- FPS moments and 30 degree bank angles as tried to keep the panic down and fly the inverse of 068 (why is that so hard to calculate in your head in panic mode? I initially came up with 268 Doh! How wide is the airway? Are they going to bust me! How far off am I!? Aaack. Where am I!! Expanded the map range with X-planes maddening click/slide/twist torture,kept from going inverted somehow, frantically reprogrammed the FMC for KLAX destination, What runways was that again?? 25L or 24L???

And of course this is when there are about 100 intersections. Determined to pick one course of action and stick with it and completely terrified of the autopilot/fmc now I decide to hand fly the beast! Unaware of my panic, and gently nudging me that I should have reported RIIVR, ATC asks me to confirm I'm on the ILS25L (aha 25L!) You betcha! (just a little high and freaked out!)

Being in serious manual mode I quickly flip through my virtual approach plates and look down and back to set the ILS/LOC freq on the panel and the approach course while pointing the nose of the plane towards the jumble of letters all squished together on the MAP dispay now that the @#@# range is too big! And here I make another key mistake...I tune in LOC freq 111.1 and incidentally crs 249 not 251 on the radio...111.1 is of course the ILS for 25 RIGHT! 249 is a "mis"twist xplane-ism. Anyway I miraculously kept from busting any minimums on my waavy approach (why wont the localizer center - it keeps being just a hair off to the right, I think while scanning for visual of the twy environment).

25L or 25R you pick!

Wavy ILS25L_OR_ILS25R.JPG (41.67 KiB) Viewed 6416 times

Of course I'm high as a kite and FAST at 226kts about 6 miles out before I drop everything including the anchor attached to the rear lavatory to slow down and get down...at about 6 miles I decide to ignore my lying instruments and trust my eyes (after literally zooming in to check the pavement 25L numbers (!)) to triple confirm that I'm lined up on the proper runway! Dive bomb approach ensues. Touchdown at about 180 (on centerline I might add ...

Rollout to the end of the runway (where is that thrust reverser mapped to!?) and just laugh as ATC congratulates me on my pass...Hope they don't read these things...

Todd

http://peaware.pilotedge.net/flight.cfm?id=81889

* EDIT - I think I know what might have happened. Receiving my landing rwy ILS 25L at KLAX I attempted to program the FMC with ILS 25L via the Departure/Arrivals button --- and I bet I hit the wrong Line Select Key -- hitting the top one ARR-KLAS instead of the 2nd ARR-KLAX! (maybe - my systems knowledge is weak). This may just be the result of me reprogramming midflight. dunno.

One wrong button press?

FMC.JPG (65.83 KiB) Viewed 6416 times

[Tim Krajcar]

A couple suggestions of alternate courses of action/practices to consider. I haven't completed the I-ratings, but I've got a few hundred hours flying SID/STAR routes on VATSIM & PE combined under my belt, so this is reasonably battle-tested

Take with appropriate grains of salt, and I stand open to correction by others reading if anything is inaccurate.

Despite not being, well suuuper familiar with the type, I opted to transition into the B757 from Flight Factor for this flight.

And now you know why pilots don't take checkrides in airplanes they're not "suuuper familiar" with

And then - it really hits the fan - suddenly and for NO reason I can fathom the plane starts a sharp right 180 passing GRAMM when it should be heading to RUSTT -- What the ! I glance in real terror at the FMC and suddenly the the DEST is KLAS! Aaaa! How the heck did that happen? * Thinking maybe I somehow popped into a RTE2 I mash the RTE button but there is no other route! My KLAS-KLAX flight plan is GONE! Craaaap. I snap off autopilot alarms blaring, oh crap, oh crap.

When flying a non-RNAV STAR, even if using a FMC, I always, always, always track the relevant VORs and radials for whatever leg I'm on. So in this case, when passing GRAMM, I would've had NAV1 dialed in on PDZ's 046 radial inbound, and be watching the DME to cross-check the AP's performance. If you had been doing that in this situation, a simple flip of the HSI source selector from GPS to NAV1 would've gotten you back on course. I also usually will have the heading bug reasonably lined up with my current course, so if NAV mode starts freaking out, I can switch onto HDG right away.

I've got to get the FMC back

No, you really don't. What would you do in this situation if the FMC failed completely and was non-revivable? The RIIVR STAR is completely flyable without a FMC. I would suggest getting much more comfortable and familiar with hand-flying a (non-RNAV) STAR, or at least only using autopilot to track radials.

And of course ATC calls at this point to let me know I'm cleared on the 25L at RIIVR and to report RIIVR. With my best airline captain voice and trying to cover the alarm sounds in the cockpit (for AUTO disconnect) I happily read back...

Yikes! You should not have read back and confirmed an instruction you were not, at that moment, capable of following. While it may or may not have been a checkride fail (I'm not a PE controller and not especially familiar with the test standards), ATC absolutely could've given you vectors to final, giving you many, less things to worry about.

And here I make another key mistake...I tune in LOC freq 111.1 and incidentally crs 249 not 251 on the radio...111.1 is of course the ILS for 25 RIGHT!

How did you discover this mistake? Hopefully it was by cross-referencing the displayed frequency identifier with the identifier on the charts as soon as you began receiving the localizer. If not, that's a habit I suggest adopting

[Talan2000]

Tim

Thanks for the helpful suggestions. They are all of course spot on. I posted this mostly tongue in cheek to mock my own overconfidence/unpreparedness and to maybe serve as a learning example of what Mostly not to do...but I didn't do ALL bad I must say in my own defense. There was that landing on 25L we all walked away from

I normally try very hard to fly it "like I really would." But I'll never sit in the left or right seat of a 757 (unless its row 23) so I let my standards slack off and embraced being a child of the magenta for one night.. And I have about 1.5 hrs in type....I doubt a real world crew (ie 2) would have tolerated the VNAV / Perf function error that started off the flight for example. And the surprise turn to KLAS still perplexes me and that's what really got me in trouble -- having your flight plan disappear just as you are turning sw onto the STAR is a bit tricky ...

And it is funny, that in planes with much less automation I routinely ID the Navaid...that big glowing AUTO and magic magenta letters just lull you so easily. And you bet I was well aware of keeping the hdg bug ON hdg -- only it was AFTER I had failed to do so.

And of course NOT ID'ng the LOC/ILS as well as cross checking it once I had made the decision to go to manual was a key key error...but of course oh so easy to do in the stress of the moment rapidly scanning the charts for the frequency unexpectedly since the plane is supposed to have done this for you...but of course no airline would employ such as sloppy pilot...or would they? But on the bright side I think I made a couple of right decisions - like disregarding the erroneous LOCALIZER data, cross checking with my mark1 mod 0 eyeball, cross checking altitudes, watching speeds, you know all that pilot stuff

I WAS a little proud of myself, despite the terror tagline, for keeping the plane reasonably well navigated -- the overall track really isn't that bad...and I was making -- not a great-- but at least a legal descent towards glidepath, and never busted minimums, despite my many woes...and was only really high (at the last two fixes)...

I'll have to look up how wide an airway is and a LOC/ILS too, to see if I got outside of either. I don't think I did by much if I did.

[Talan2000]

And what a difference a day makes.

Just reflew. No drama. Well ok, just a little. Apparently in addition to causing random wheel toe brake lock ups my CH Eclipse yoke has a sticking/repeating Push to Talk button which is triggering disconnects when I hold it to talk! (since PE will disconnect you if you key the mike 5 times rapidly - a feature I wouldn't mind seeing go away

Anyway, remapped a new PTT button slightly less conveniently located on the right horn of the yoke and now no disconnects! yeah.

Also I avoided accidentally telling the FMS to take me to the KLAS - ILS 25L (!) when I meant KLAX ILS 25L this time -- that was definitively "the error that caused the terror" last time.

Still have problems with VNAV not working as it should but FL CH and MCP ALTs worked out fine...

http://peaware.pilotedge.net/flight.cfm?id=82126

[wmburns]

Just wondering what is your sim (X-Plane, FSX or P3D)?

Tell us about any add on software (FSUIPC, Saitek drivers or the like).

My thought is that your original PPT button was defined to repeat when held and that the new button is not.

Just a guess.

[Tim Krajcar]

(since PE will disconnect you if you key the mike 5 times rapidly - a feature I wouldn't mind seeing go away

Yeah, that's not going away. It's an essential feature for very high-end simulators that can't exactly pop up a window. Plus, if your PTT is repeating over and over, your voice transmissions are probably going to come through broken anyway. I agree with wmburns, your hardware was probably configured to send a repeat.

[Talan2000]

Tim and WM,

Well I have a CH Eclipse Flight yoke. I had initially installed the CH Configurator app (or someuch) but have removed it as I never really knew what it did. I never set any button to repeat - certainly not intentionally. The problem seems to have gotten worse lately. So much so I was disconnecting multiple times in one flight whereas before it was an odd anomaly every other flight...I think you are right it is repeating or more likely failing/behaving badly...I swithced to the right horn button to PTT and have not (yet) disconnected. And you are right when the disconnects were happening last I did a radio check and was received broken so the button is definitely sticking/repeating...

Also I had the most frustrating experience with getting phantom toe brakes applied -- froze me on rwys and taxiways after landing for example. And I have finally tracked that down to the sim (XP 10.31) apparently getting a signal from one of the buttons on the yoke mapped to RT Toe brake. I removed that mapping and it stopped happening. Monitoring the DataRef in flight I could see the sim suddenly indicate RT Toe Brake 1 even though no button had been pressed...

I'm beginning to lose faith in what to me is a pretty pricey yoke...the PTT was the 2nd workaround I've had to do. If there's some way to configure the yoke to repeat or not repeat i would LOVE to know how! Thanks!

Todd
Win 7 XP 10.31

[ChrisS]

This is a great write up. Thanks for taking the time to do this.