Newbie panic...

[par2005]

Ok, I understand the argument about not being able to land in an emergency on the runway - but there are always other places to land in a emergency. A runway, golf field, whatever.

But what if you're on base, then on final, and you still can't get through to ATC? You're on the approach, right in the traffic of everyone, and about to land without a clearance?

Happened to me more than once, which is when I came to a conclusion I must get a confirmation from ATC before I put myself in a very uncomfortable position (on the approach, about to land, and no atc clearance). Also my regular pattern is very tight, so usually it's maybe 1 minute from the base till the touchdown, so you really don't have that much time to get through to the ATC, if it's busy. And in PE it's busy whenever I fly.

[Ryan B]

You can't land (or make a touch n go, low approach, or stop and go) without a clearance. You can with a emergency though (errr, land that is)

Again I wouldn't blindy turn base into another aircraft but I would turn base without talking to ATC if no traffic in my way. I'm a controller in real life and I hope that pilots would NOT extend their downwind without asking me. No one has ever done that to me (in 8 years)... Never say never though lol. If you've got time just IDENT on final, we actually had a pilot do that for someone who was training (we knew the option clearance was missing but the trainee was way behind hehe and the pilot was trying to help the local trainee)

Typically I sequence guys before MF downwind but once in a while I get a little busy and in my experience , pilots either query me prior to base, or turn base, and ask for their clearance on base.

You could do either on PE. Use simple phraseology, "cessna 123 is on base" the controller will know they forgot to clear you... Because they rarely say "report base."

[Leyenda.cl]

Been there. I usually slow down and try to follow a predictable pattern.
What if you turn final and no clearance yet? go around if the tower is not responsive I presume.

[Ryan B]

Correct.

[Bidimus]

Been there. I usually slow down and try to follow a predictable pattern.
What if you turn final and no clearance yet? go around if the tower is not responsive I presume.

Interesting. How would you execute a go around with a pattern like that? Stay at PTA, fly over the runway and reenter the pattern on the other side? Or go around to the upwind leg and circle the airport? I've been hypothesizing why KNSA has two different TPA for the two runways. Is this why? Though 200ft doesn't seem like enough separation.

[Keith Smith]

I'll amend my answer and say that it's situation-dependent. If you are confident of your sequence, then turn base when you'd normally turn base and ping the controller asap. If you have an inkling that there might be faster traffic on a straight-in, I would hold off on the base turn.

This is one of the few cases that would happen more often on PE than in the real world, since we cover 40 towers at once compared to a single tower being covered by one person in real life.

In my experience, it's exceedingly rare to get past the numbers on the downwind without having your sequence worked out.

On PE it might happen because you pass midfield, someone might start reading back an IFR clearance to ground controller (who might also be the tower controller) and the radio is tied up for a while. In an ideal world, ATC would see this coming and say, "hold the read back" after they issue the IFR clearance so they can bang out the landing clearance, get confirmation from the guy in the pattern, then say, "go ahead with your read back" to the guy on the ground.

[Bidimus]

On PE it might happen because you pass midfield, someone might start reading back an IFR clearance to ground controller (who might also be the tower controller) and the radio is tied up for a while. In an ideal world, ATC would see this coming and say, "hold the read back" after they issue the IFR clearance so they can bang out the landing clearance, get confirmation from the guy in the pattern, then say, "go ahead with your read back" to the guy on the ground.

That might explain something interesting we saw last night during our V-1. At one point we got our landing clearance much earlier than I had expected. In fact in my case I had only just started to turn downwind. KSNA 20L is a fast pattern due to the short runway. I wonder it was to clear the air for an expected call that would be more involved.

[Keith Smith]

You can expect your landing/option clearance at any point on the downwind in real life, too.

[Bidimus]

Roger. It's been a very educational week. I had no idea that for something as simple as pattern work, there'd be so many different scenarios. Certainly not like offline.

[Ryan B]

Thank goodness for PE.... Offline is just.... "meh"

Now when is NorCal coming KS?