Never again on PE - share your mistakes

[Keith Smith]

Great points, and definitely a +1 on the MU-2, it's a fantastic model. Chris and I took it for a spin last night with shared cockpit. Peter threw an engine fire at us (my fault for showing him how to trigger remote failures!), but it all worked out. We flew KSBD to L08, VFR. To find L08, we joined the JLI 15 DME arc, clockwise until we had the field in sight. I had never used an arc as an impromptu method of finding an airport, but it worked great. That MU-2 flies so nicely.

Welcome back to the network!

[stevekirks]

My lesson learned:

I recently jumped into FSEconomy with both feet and was in the middle of a passenger flight with the default Cessna 172 in X-Plane. It was a late afternoon flight from Twentynine Palms (KTNP) to Flabob at Riverside (KRIR) and since I was hauling passengers for money, I filed IFR while on the ground. After that moment, I was behind the whole flight.

1. I was briefing the obstacle/departure procedure during the taxi. Climbing right turn to direct the TNP VOR and climb to 6000 feet. Luckily the Cessna made it even with the two pax and fuel.
2. I was going to pickup IFR in the air since I could easily depart VFR but the controller was pretty busy and I was faced with the fact I was not mentally prepped to do orbits of TNP while waiting. Fate helped me and I got a quick "cleared direct to TNP VOR then as filed" and was on my way.
3. Things went normal and I climbed to my filed 10,000 feet and I realized that I'd bet in the real world, I couldn't fly passengers in a non-pressurized plane for this long at this altitude without dedicated oxygen. Poor planning, even in the sim.
4. Controller was gracious and gave me plenty of time on the descents with a final level off at 4,200 feet for the visual approach. "Flabob airport 12 miles at 1 o'clock" was the call and that's where it got interesting. I didn't have a fix or nav aid to help me place the field, so I had to know the geography. Heading westbound, the Riverside airport (KRAL) would be on the left and Flabob on the right with a river separating the two. I could see KRAL but not my destination. I called back with a request to confirm what I thought I saw and got a 'roger'. Here's the problem--in the sim, Flabob was mostly blocked by a small ridge but the drones doing pattern work (?) were the give away.
5. By the time I was lined up on final, I had to level at 4000 to reduce speed, then drop all of the flaps as a poor man's speed brake and dive for the field at 1500 fps descent to make the sight pattern work for the landing.

Safe on the ground, my passengers exited without complaint. I sat in the cockpit for a moment and contemplated the pile of mistakes.

I'm not a real life private pilot yet, but I love PE since I can safely learn from all of these mistakes without costing me my license or my life. Switched to a yearly subscription this weekend.

Thanks Keith and the PilotEdge team!

[Keith Smith]

Great post, Steve. if the pressure altitude is between 12,500 and 14,000 for more than 30 mins, the crew needs oxygen. If you're between 14k+, the crew needs oxygen immediately. Comically, only when you're above 15k do your pax need to have oxygen.

[wmburns]

3. Things went normal and I climbed to my filed 10,000 feet and I realized that I'd bet in the real world, I couldn't fly passengers in a non-pressurized plane for this long at this altitude without dedicated oxygen. Poor planning, even in the sim.

Thanks for sharing. When I was reading this, I was thinking that 10,000 feet in an un-pressurized cabin was OK. I thought the limit was like 12,500 feet. A quick Google search says multiple answers but the top items say 12,500 feet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization

However other sources say 10,500 feet.
http://www.avweb.com/news/aeromed/18189 ... directed=1

Here's an FFA source that seems to indicate pilots conducting long flights ABOVE 10.000 feet should have additional training. But this doesn't say that supplemental oxygen is required (not above 12,500').
http://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/airm ... 1-107a.pdf

Other sources say the limit is 12,500 for more than 30 minutes. To me that implies there is no limit on flight below 12,500 feet.
http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine ... t_All.html

Some of the other sources say in Canada carrying PAX the limit is above 10,000 feet.

Back in the days when I was skydiving, I once took my wrist mounted altimeter on a commercial flight (way before 9/11). It was interesting to see the cabin altitude actually does climb to 8,000 feet. Certainly regular PAX routinely speed LARGE periods of time at 8,000 feet.

When I was skydiving we were always told that bailout oxygen (supplemental) was only needed if the jump plane was to be above 12,500 for more than 30 minutes. My drop zone was flying a Twin Otter with an outstanding rate of climb (what a great jump airplane!). So jumps from 14,000 were possible without having to take along supplemental/bailout oxygen. Where as a slower rate of climb aircraft would.

[Keith Smith]

Btw, this is all for part 91, I wouldn't be surprised if the oxygen requirements are different for 135 or 121 ops.

[Peter Grey]

Btw, this is all for part 91, I wouldn't be surprised if the oxygen requirements are different for 135 or 121 ops.

Very different and not worth going into for a flight sim environment. They go a lot into O2 amounts.

[darossi3]

Incredibly Embarrassing....

After Flying a bunch of flights with the C172 and Piper Cherokee, i came in for an approach in my shiny new Beech Turbine Duke. After flying for a few hours by now, came in for the landing, NO GEAR!!! haha. Sparks everywhere and engines cut and caught fire.... I didnt even know Prepar3d had those effects haha.... lesson learned...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkOzu9i2_Q4

Pretty much THIS.... Glad it wasnt Real Life as i legitimately forgot the gear!

[Tol3458]

Great post, Steve. if the pressure altitude is between 12,500 and 14,000 for more than 30 mins, the crew needs oxygen. If you're between 14k+, the crew needs oxygen immediately. Comically, only when you're above 15k do your pax need to have oxygen.

As an aside, there was a news story about a year or so ago about a Justin Beiber flight that was investigated by Panamanian authorities on the ground after the flight crew complained to air traffic control that marijuana smoke from the cabin was contaminating the flight deck (the flight attendent barricaded herself in the cockpit). I mentioned this sort of disruptive behavior to a friend who piloted private jets, who said he had also dealt with that sort of behavior. To deal with the situation, he said he depressurized the plane to 15K to put all on board to sleep. No problem.

[Nelson L.]

Remember that nice and easy LOC RWY 27 at KSAN - the one thats used in the I8 rating? Fantastic. Now recall the LOC/DME BC-A into KSMX - the one in the I10 rating...... One of them is a backcourse, one of them is not - pretty simple right? Right - just don't brief the I10 rating as you're practicing for the I8, and then press that shiny little BC button on the AP.

"Hey, why is my plane turning left instead of right?"

[stealthbob]

Ok, so complete newb here just trying to put in some mic time in...minding my own business, flying a simple route from KSNA to KRIL and get suddenly blasted from SoCaL departure:

"stationair82SB, what is the weather at KRIL?"

lmao!

I have made about 6 of these same flights now in about 5 days, guess he just wanted to test me...I of course had not checked

So to start, this was VFR...how the hell did he know where I was going? lol

The funny thing was as soon as I checked and changed my altimeter he released me to freq change...never did get to tell him proudly "I have Tango Sir!"

I have to say I am pretty impressed with the approach to training here, I can only assume that ATC saw that my ALT was set wrong or simply decided to test me if I had checked for weather and subsequently saw my change to the alt setting and handed me off?

EDIT...Holy horse pucks, just tried a listen in on the call logs. Damm...I sound scared lol. I am normally a confidant public speaker but this thing has me shaking..... :facepalm: