Different operations at KPSP

[uncertifiedpilot]

For a few days now, I've been enjoying flying around KPSP to train my basic VFR communications. Some beginner's questions:

(1) I'm a bit confused about the different handling I receive when departing from or arriving at KPSP. Sometimes I'm just given basic Delta-like instructions to depart (taxi, straight-out, good day), other times it seems much more Charlie-like (squawking, contacting socal departure). Same goes for arrivals.

I don't quite get why these operations would change from day to day. It almost seems like one controller operates KPSP as Charlie (as depicted on PE map), but the other as Delta (as depicted on sectional). I guess this different handling is perhaps only KPSP specific due to the unique TRSA structure of KPSP? Or because of situational traffic in the area? Nevertheless, I like to know what variable I might be missing in this respect ...

(2) When arriving at KPSP in particular, irrespective of traffic density in the area, should I generally contact approach first before getting handed over to tower (Charlie style) or could I just directly go to tower (Delta style) and announce my inbound flight? Up until today, I just contacted tower; but because of (1) I'm starting to doubt whether I should formally contact approach first.

3) Lastly, at KPSP I have noticed that, despite of current surface wind direction at KPSP, controllers always issue 31L or 31R arrivals. Several times now, with winds like 090/06 reported by the controller when I call in, still runways 31L/R are used (opposed to 13L/R which seem more favorable). In those cases I needed to ask to land at 13L instead. Are winds of <10 knots generally disregarded by controllers when selecting active runways? Or are runways 13L/R simply closed?

[Peter Grey]

Hello,

KPSP is a TRSA as you imply which can best be described as "non-mandatory" Class C airspace. As a result the handling you get (Class C style vs Class D style) depends on how you announce your intentions/what frequencies you call.

Specifically:

I don't quite get why these operations would change from day to day. It almost seems like one controller operates KPSP as Charlie (as depicted on PE map), but the other as Delta (as depicted on sectional). I guess this different handling is perhaps only KPSP specific due to the unique TRSA structure of KPSP? Or because of situational traffic in the area? Nevertheless, I like to know what variable I might be missing in this respect ...

Generally you should be given Class C (or more specifically TRSA) style services. However, some controllers will take you calling ground control without a request for Radar Services as a "no-radar" service request which results in Class D style services. We could lock this down a bit more, however in the real world there is variation in TRSA handling which is controlled by the ATIS telling you who to contact for what service. As we don't control the ATIS the result is a bit of variability in service received.

If you want the radar services the best way is to call Clearance Delivery at PSP with that request.

(2) When arriving at KPSP in particular, irrespective of traffic density in the area, should I generally contact approach first before getting handed over to tower (Charlie style) or could I just directly go to tower (Delta style) and announce my inbound flight? Up until today, I just contacted tower; but because of (1) I'm starting to doubt whether I should formally contact approach first.

Both methods are acceptable. The "preferred" method is to call approach inbound to get TRSA services to the airport, however this is not required and you can skip it and contact PSP tower directly. Because both methods are allowed and commonly used controllers will not indicate a preference for you to do 1 over the other, it's 100% up to you. Note in the real world some TRSA's force the approach service on you whether you want it or not.

3) Lastly, at KPSP I have noticed that, despite of current surface wind direction at KPSP, controllers always issue 31L or 31R arrivals. Several times now, with winds like 090/06 reported by the controller when I call in, still runways 31L/R are used (opposed to 13L/R which seem more favorable). In those cases I needed to ask to land at 13L instead. Are winds of <10 knots generally disregarded by controllers when selecting active runways? Or are runways 13L/R simply closed?

For a variety of reasons our weather may be slightly different (1-2 hours ahead usually) of your sims weather. KPSP likes to have rapid wind shifts so we may be using 1 wind while your sim gives you another. We have no way of knowing what weather your sim is giving you. If the runway we issue isn't compatible with the weather in your simulator you should simply request the runway that you need.

Officially a tailwind of over 5 knots will force a switch to the 13's at PSP. Note you can't close 1 end of a runway without closing the other (with very minor exception for weird terrain situations {See KASE}).

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

[uncertifiedpilot]

Thank you for your detailed and clear reply, Peter. I appreciate your care to clarify.

@Different handling: I thought so. Your last recommendation on this matter though, sounds to me as the appropriate 'lock down' fix for KPSP; if pilots like to have radar services when departing/arriving KPSP, they contact contact clearance delivery or socal approach first and make that request. If no radar services are needed, pilots directly call Ground for departure or Tower when arriving with basic call in (and possibly get forced by Tower to contact approach first anyway if there is much traffic?). Personally, I prefer a consistent operation on KPSP. So I would +1 the above as a possible fix.

@Tower or approach: Understood. Makes sense.

@Active runways: I get how active weather might differ between the pilots and controllers, however, when the controller tells me winds are 090/06 and still uses the 31's, then that seems wrong (and makes planning my departure or arrival a bit unrealistic). In all cases so far, my winds matched the controller's perfectly.

However, I understand the >5 knots tailwind rule. How can I reliably adopt that rule in my future flight planning?
When winds are around 5 knots or less on KPSP, I should interpret that as 'winds calm' and plan for the 31's as KPSP's default active runways? What about other airports?

Perhaps I should just take this minor inconsistency in purpose of training; coping with unexpected/contradictory ATC instructions, or just asking the controller to arrive at or depart from the runway that is most favorable to current wind conditions if traffic allows...

[Peter Grey]

Note that a tailwind component of 5 knots, and a wind that's more aligned with the 13's and over 5 knots are different things.

A wind of 090/6 is a 5 knot tailwind for runway 31, and hence the 31's would be in use. Anything over 090/6 (090/7 for example) would result in a switch to runway 13.

However, I understand the >5 knots tailwind rule. How can I reliably adopt that rule in my future flight planning?
When winds are around 5 knots or less on KPSP, I should interpret that as 'winds calm' and plan for the 31's as KPSP's default active runways? What about other airports?

Different airports use different rules, 5 knots is the "default rule" but some airports use different criteria (larger airports tend to use 10 knots and consider the weather forecast as well). In general though a wind at or under 5 knots will normally result in the calm wind runway being used. There's no 100% reliable method to know the runway in use for flight planning, luckily it's usually not a big deal if you get this one wrong.

Within ZLA most of the time (about 85%) the calm wind runway is the one closest to west (270).

[uncertifiedpilot]

Thanks!

[wmburns]

However, I understand the >5 knots tailwind rule. How can I reliably adopt that rule in my future flight planning?

In the real world determining the active runway would be an important reason to get the current destination ATIS. Obviously in the sim this information is less reliable.

I agree that you have to be prepared for changes. It's not possible to plan everything. What if you checked the weather before leaving but the weather changes enroute?

For training purposes it's also good to be able to enter the pattern even if given the runway near the airport. Having this skill can only make you a safer pilot.

If during IMC, then being proficient with the GPS, charts, and approach brief will also help reduce the anxiety that last minute runway changes could cause. Thus making you a safer pilot.

If there's one constant in aviation it's change.

[Anthony Santanastaso]

If during IMC, then being proficient with the GPS, charts, and approach brief will also help reduce the anxiety that last minute runway changes could cause. Thus making you a safer pilot.

That's a great notion to remember, and I would even say that it can also apply to VFR flying as well as far as how it implies the need to thoroughly brief your flight.

While I am sure there are many variations of this saying, remember (at least) the 5 P's of success: Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance.

Then, of course, there is always a time to remind pilots about using good ADM. https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policie ... r%2017.pdf

[awreaper]

Lastly, at KPSP I have noticed that, despite of current surface wind direction at KPSP, controllers always issue 31L or 31R arrivals. Several times now, with winds like 090/06 reported by the controller when I call in, still runways 31L/R are used (opposed to 13L/R which seem more favorable). In those cases I needed to ask to land at 13L instead. Are winds of <10 knots generally disregarded by controllers when selecting active runways? Or are runways 13L/R simply closed?

I experienced this the other night. I was treating KPSP as a delta so I retrieved the weather (real world on IPAD and ASN) and checked in with the tower. The controller was very busy and it was hard to get a word in. She acknowledged me so I continued on in to the D airspace planning on landing on 13 as the winds favored that direction. I waited and waited as the controller talked to one pilot after another. Again in her defense it was very busy. I started my approach for 13 and about a mile or two out she told me to enter a downwind for 31. It threw me for a loop but I figured "hey there must be a reason she is landing me this way". The tailwind component was not bad and it is a long runway so I just went with it. If the tailwind was pretty stiff I would have asked for confirmation of 13 and probably a different runway.

[Kyle.Sanders]

This site has some GREAT resources for PE including an ATIS player and will tell you the weather and operations that each controlled field in PE is running.
http://myflightroute.com

[bbuckley]

Shouldn't the "real world" METAR on ForeFlight and ATIS provided through ASN all be the same as MFR? I don't know how MFR determines the landing and departing runways (Ken?) but the Wx should all be the same.